@agitato said:

Hi Kai

I had stated that my calculation assumed no repetitions. You are right that it is 12^8 (or roughly 1 billion) with repetitions, which makes sense. But I like to exclude repetitions since a melody like  C C C C C C C C is obviously not interesting. And this is for only one note length and I never intended to include any variations in expression and articulation or dynamics. One could go crazy with this calculation and I am not that interested. This was just for a rough idea. 

I did not intend to suggest that music is math (oh please, lets not get side tracked here!) but posted that with the idea that someone might be curious about the number of combinations possible. 

The traditions of classical music composition have found ways to teach us how to narrow down this amazingly complex "landscape" of tonal possibilities into beautiful melodies without ever knowing math. It is fascinating to me that a computer algorithm that churns out melodies will probably take a million years to write a melody like Tchaikovsky or Mozart that can move us emotionally. How does the human brain achieve it? Fascinating.

Cheers

Anand

hi anand,

so sorry, i missed that you made this assumption. in this case my point is not about the math, but rather about the assumption itself, because you should have a hard time naming a famous melody without a single note repetition.

my post wasn’t entirely serious and i did not want to turn this into a nerdy discussion about math 😊, i was just surprised to read such a post on this forum. 

my main concern is your assumption that every 100th melody is “good” (which is surely hard to define in first place). i would guess that out of the nearly uncountably many (landscape is a good picture), the percentage of melodies that a large number of people agrees on to be “good” is FAR smaller. otherwise we would hear many more of them … and that’s why the exquisite examples in this thread are so special.

i fully agree with your statement about classical music, but i am not sure about the million years. neural networks are making tremendous progress. recently the same architecture of the “alphago” software that had previously beaten the world champion in the game of go taught itself in less than a day how to play chess (and other games) and plays now better than specialized chess software (despite decades of development of the latter). the “deepdream” networks can already “imitate” famous painters and the results are quite stunning (although a bit creepy). so i wouldn’t be surprised if a neural network would learn how to copy a certain style and “compose” e.g. “tchaikovsky-esque” music in the next decade. coming up with really new ideas is surely much harder, but who knows, maybe a neural network can one day even learn what makes a melody great and implicitly apply this complex recipe (which likely won’t consist of a few simple rules) to come up with new ones …

cheers

kai

I made this melody almost 20 years ago. I was inspired by a little baby of very good friends of mine. I can't say it is my best melody, but it is a piece that makes the public totally silent in a recital, I experienced several times.

For a little one, a tender one

@William said:

Hey!  This thread has become friendly and cordial !  What's up with that?  I'm getting nervous.

Yeah, I think we have what call in physics, an 'unstable equilibrium' in this forum 😉

@MMKA said:

I made this melody almost 20 years ago. I was inspired by a little baby of very good friends of mine. I can't say it is my best melody, but it is a piece that makes the public totally silent in a recital, I experienced several times.

For a little one, a tender one

Really beautiful! What makes it work so well is the interpretation is just right. 

ps William, your pm box is full.

@MMKA said:

I made this melody almost 20 years ago. I was inspired by a little baby of very good friends of mine. I can't say it is my best melody, but it is a piece that makes the public totally silent in a recital, I experienced several times.

For a little one, a tender one

Really beautiful! What makes it work so well is the interpretation is just right. 

Thanks Guy, for your friendly words. What you say about the interpretation of the music is among others what I like so much in your work with samples. Every tone has something to say (unless it has to be just 'empty' tones, what also is possible of course).

@MMKA said:

I made this melody almost 20 years ago. I was inspired by a little baby of very good friends of mine. I can't say it is my best melody, but it is a piece that makes the public totally silent in a recital, I experienced several times.

For a little one, a tender one

Really beautiful! What makes it work so well is the interpretation is just right. 

Absolutely, this is a beautiful melody and played so nicely. No wonder the audience becomes quiet lisening to this..there seems to be a stillness in the piece despite all the movement.

I like the use of back and forth Lydian and Minor scales, that what makes this unique I think.

This is Chopin inspired i am sure 😉

Cheers

Anand

@MMKA said:

I made this melody almost 20 years ago. I was inspired by a little baby of very good friends of mine. I can't say it is my best melody, but it is a piece that makes the public totally silent in a recital, I experienced several times.

For a little one, a tender one

Really beautiful! What makes it work so well is the interpretation is just right. 

Absolutely, this is a beautiful melody and played so nicely. No wonder the audience becomes quiet lisening to this..there seems to be a stillness in the piece despite all the movement.

I like the use of back and forth Lydian and Minor (Aeolian) scales, that what makes this melody unique... I think.

This is Chopin inspired i am sure 😉

Cheers

Anand

Hello William,

Well, I just want to start out by saying that I am a little nervous about posting what I think is my best melody.  But I think I have a good reason to be nervous.  You see, I have never had any formal education in music - in other words, I can't read or write music notation.  I truly wish I had had the discipline to stick with it so many years ago.  But I love good music, good musicians, and especially a good melody.

When I first heard what VSL could sound like, I was smitten, to say the least.  I had many ideas I wanted to get recorded but the sounds of the orchestra I just could not reproduce with the equipment I had.  I was a drummer in a rock band since 1976 but my secret love of classical and film music I kept hidden from my friends and band members. Pretty silly of me. I listened more to the local classical station than the rock music.

Anyway I hope you enjoy this piece.  As I already mentioned, I am quite new at composing and truthfully, I do not know if it is even "good" - The eye of the beholder and all that !

Thanks,

John M - You may have to cut and paste the link.

http://www.broadjam.com/songs/johnminardi/the-life-gift

John, that sounds really good - I like the definition of the melodic lines and instruments.  I listened to some of the other tracks there - better than a lot of composers out there so you have nothing to be nervous about!    

mmka that is a real melody!  That is what is hardest to do - something totally simple but good.   One could have a horrible melody, with the same simplicity.  So what makes yours  good?  Impossible to formulate. 

Maybe my favorite melody of all time is Shenandoah.  It is one of the most beautiful -  I have a performance by Robert Shaw Chorale that is the most expressive performance...  and it is just a few notes, nothing complex, no great development, no symphonic structure - just a few notes.  That is an amazing thing to create something like that.  And no one even knows who composed that one.

John M nice melody. 

William I agree Shenandoah is a wonderful melody. I wonder if the heart wrenching quality is also felt by Europeans? For me, part of the effect of Shenandoah lies in the civil war connotations. The sadness for all of the lives lost, military and civilian, during the civil war. And the sadness felt when leaving home. 

I also wonder if fans of EDM, heavy metal, hip hop and gangster rap can hear the beauty in a simple yet powerful melody. Shennandoah also makes me sad for all of those folks.

Hello William,

Your responce brought me to tears.  No one has ever given me a compliment like that and it means a lot to me.  I listen to the great composers as much as possible and I am just awed by what I hear. I know there are a lot of good musicians out there who toiled very hard to obtain a good education in music composition.  I cannot say I am on par with them and then look at myself in the mirror - but I do greatly appreciate your compliment.           

Working with the VSL has given me a great appreciation for the musicians in the orchestra.

I believe that if the music comes from the heart of the one who composes it and makes it come to life, it will affect others in a pleasing way - not everyone of course, but thats OK.  I am glad you enjoyed the music.

Thanks again William and lets keep in touch.

John Minardi

Paul McGraw - Thank you and I am glad you enjoyed it.  Take care.

@Paul McGraw said:

I also wonder if fans of EDM, heavy metal, hip hop and gangster rap can hear the beauty in a simple yet powerful melody. Shennandoah also makes me sad for all of those folks.

I am no fan of those genres you mention but  with all due respect, I must admit that I felt your comment was condescending.

Maybe I misunderstood your post, but who are we to judge other forms of music?  I personally mostly listen to classical music but does everything have to be classical music? There has been a lot of great music out there in the 20th century that is not clasical music and sweet melodies. Take Jazz for example. It is more complex than what many classical composers can dream up, and it doesnt always have sweet melodies.  

Why should we feel sad for people wo listen to Jazz, Rock or Reggae or Hip hop or Rap music? Who are we to judge those who listen to anything else but classical as lower or unfortunate people?

Sorry to distract, but this comment upset me and I felt that I should express it. No one can define the boundaries of music which is like an ocean.

Anand

Thanks, Anand and William, for your attention to the little piece and what you said about it. 

Happy holidays, everyone! Here's my entry. I decided to go with this old piece from 1996 which is a piano piece wrapped in orchestral colors and it's part of a suite that tells a fairy-tale through music. Unfortunately I didn't have VSL at my disposal back then, so I went with a Roland JV2080 with orchestral expansion (anyone remembering that thing?). Enjoy!

The Beauty Of Winter

@Xander S. said:

Happy holidays, everyone! Here's my entry. I decided to go with this old piece from 1996 which is a piano piece wrapped in orchestral colors and it's part of a suite that tells a fairy-tale through music. Unfortunately I didn't have VSL at my disposal back then, so I went with a Roland JV2080 with orchestral expansion (anyone remembering that thing?). Enjoy!

The Beauty Of Winter

I do remember the Roland and you got a very nice sound out of it. Good recording, very clean. 

@William said:

... Here are some of my melodic excerpts... [url=

************************************************************News Flash***********************************************************

                                                    PEACE BREAKS OUT ON THE VSL FORUM!

You know when I first saw William's provocative thread here I thought for sure Dietz was going to shut it down in a matter of hours which was why I quickly responded.

So I took some time off for Christmas and when I come back, amazingly, this thread is still going strong with four pages of stuff taboot. I figured maybe Dietz is taking time off for the holidays and this thread slipped under the radar. 

Well I love a good fight so I grabbed a bag of popcorn and took my ringside seat expecting to see a real slugfest between "The Usual Suspects." 

I'm reading through the posts waiting for the first blow when to my pleasant surprise everybody is getting along😊  Everybody is posting their best and worst melodies and having civil discussions about melody makers, Physics, Classical Music, and Film Scores etc.

**************************************************************News Flash********************************************************

             IT'S OFFICIAL, THE TEMPERATURE IN HELL HAS JUST FALLEN BELOW 0 DEGREES CELSIUS

I wonder if it has something to do with the holiday season🤔

Anyway, I wanted to keep the thread alive because I want to listen to the works that people have posted I just don't have time right now but I will be back.

Gosh! I'm just so proud of you guys😢

Xander that sounds really good - was any of that VSL?  

@Errikos said:

https://soundcloud.com/errikos-vaios/fractured-city-main-title

For as long as I've known you here on the forum Errikos I do believe this is the first time I've actually heard your music.

You sandbagger!  You've been holding out on us.  Hording this talent of yours and not sharing.  Shame on you!

This is truely a beautiful melody Errikos and if it's a not-so-favorite melody then I think we would all be in for a treat if you would share your favorite melody polished and produced or rough and raw.  Honestly, there is a uniqueness I'm hearing that defines your own style.  I'm usually pretty good at hearing influences in somebody's music but I'm having a hard time detecting any trace of this composer or that one in your example here.  Maybe it's just that I'm not as astute in this regard as I once thought I was.  

Thank you for sharing.  Finally😃

When I get more time I will listen to other posters of this thread but I'm just going to focus on composers whos music I haven't heard yet.

Sorry Guy but I'm sure whatever you've posted is just shinning with brillance.  I think you could drop a stack of plates on the floor and the breaking, crashing and clanking would somehow form a beautifully memorable melody.  However, I wouldn't mind hearing something of yours that you're not so proud of.