Now imagine you are compelled to sit through 4'33" ostensibly "by" John Cage. He must have been laughing all the way to the bank at how gullible and self-righteous our musical academics have become. If you, like me, KNOW FOR A FACT that John Cage was a con man, with no further evidence needed (although there is lots more) then we might have some common ground.
A con-man? Wow, that's pretty extreme, if Cage were a con-man what the hell is Donald Trump? Cage actually wrote some excellent little piano pieces before his desire to integrate eastern philosophy into his music captured his attention. His 4"33 piece was a statement about silence, about not only the value of silence but that music itself emerges from silence; he was also playing with people's inability to be comfortable with silence, particularly when in a group such as a concert-hall audience.. At least he had an original mind and was capable of originality, I don't hear much of that around here on this forum.
Paul, you're sounding just like another embittered composer whose ego needs to denounce other creative people who don't fit into your personal tastes. I sometimes wonder about the role that envy plays among artistic people who haven't really completely accepted their lot in life and their obsessive need to put down others who have achieved more recognition and success than they have. I wish every composer would turn their "bullshit-detector" inward and shine it on themselves, as it would greatly uplift the level of discussion on this forum. Between William and Paul, I don't even want to post or participate here any more. You guys are fundamentalists and really should become a bit more aware of where your angst is really coming from. It's not about music, it's about ego. Can't you see that? It seems pretty clear to me...
Hi Jerry,
What is the purpose of this post of yours? What do you hope to gain? Are you trying to silence me? All of these insults, posturing, and amateur psychoanalysis prove nothing. I will not answer you in kind. I have no time to waste on such nonsense. And one thing that you did not talk about was musical aesthetics, or answer my call for greater discrimination and discernment within the realm of concert music. You talked about what Cage hoped to gain by silence. How about a statue of nothing that makes a statement about an empty podium? It is so obsurd it would be funny if it were not so pathetic.
The reason that I use John Cage as an example is that 4'33" is a PERFECT example. What could be less worthy of being called "music" than silence. It isn't even noise. What writer of trash could be less worthy of the noble title of composer than John Cage?
Did you know that John Cage made a very big deal about his claim to have studied with Schoenberg? This claim was especially helpful to him in his early career. Yet Cage does not appear on any class lists or student records of USC, where he claimed to have studied with Schoenberg. When pressed on the matter Schoenberg refused to say anything about Cage. After repeated questions as to whether Cage did or did not study with him, Schoenberg said something about Cage being "very creative." This from a man who took great pride in his legitimate students, writing letters of recommendation and helping them with their careers.
Other students of Schoenberg during the period in which Cage claimed his studies took place have no recollection of John Cage ever being in class, or at the frequent gatherings Schoenberg held at his home. for his pupils. There have been academic papers written to try and reconcile these facts, but no actual evidence of any studies has ever been found, just attempts to obfuscate the simple truth. John Cage falsified his credentials and obviously was a con man.
Until we can once again begin to show some discernment about the quality of musical creations, the audience will continue to become further and further alienated. And they should. It is an intelligent reaction to people like John Cage.