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  • How to record a choir to use it in MIR Pro? [Solved]

    Hello!

    I want to record a choir (SATB, ~24-28 people) and mix it with a virtual orchestra. I really like the sound of the synchron stage and would like to mix the recording in MIR.

    Has someone tried this already? What would be the best mic configuration for this scenario?

    Best regards, Ben


    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
  • last edited
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    @bbelius said:

    ...I want to record a choir (SATB, ~24-28 people) and mix it with a virtual orchestra. I really like the sound of the synchron stage and would like to mix the recording in MIR.

    Has someone tried this already? What would be the best mic configuration for this scenario?

    Best regards, Ben

    Hi Ben

    It is possible but it will probably not easy to record the choir as dry as the samples are of VSL. So if you have allready roomsound of your recordin you will probably have the room in the room (Synchron Stage). If that sound will fit to those of the samples - I don't know. Could be that you get better results without MIR but with common mix-techniques where you can treat the samples and the choir in a different way.

    But these are words you need to try.

    Beat


    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • Thank you Beat for the answer!

    Sadly I have no room with good sound, so I am trying to record as dry as possible.

    I plan to experiment with the recording configurations during choir practices. I have only minimal experience with recording (and first time recording such a big choir), so I am trying to read as much about recording and consulting as many people as I can. Hopefully the choir won't have to suffer during recording because of me.

    My current plan is to position the sections in a row 2m apart from each other (minimize speak-over). For microphone I plan to use small condenser in x/y configuration per section 2m away from each singer of the section (or just mono?). Additional a main pair in ORTF, but I do not know if I will mix them into the final mix.

     

    I will be very happy if you or someone else can give me some advice or ideas!


    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
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    last edited

    Hi Ben

    Normally a large choir should be seen as on instrument (for recordings). It also is not imortant to make out each single voice - no, the opposit is the aim. So one should use the A/B stereo configuration. If you choose the distance 51,4cm between the two mics you will be able to record 180°. If your choir is even larger you can add a microfne at the left and on the right = Gross-AB (I don't know the word in English). Normally one uses omnidirectional microfones for this case but you should have not too much room-tone so cardiodid-microfones could be the better solution for you.

    http://www.musik-produktion-createc.ch/Createc-Chor-gross-Aufnahme.jpg

    Here is an Music-Example of this configuration (mp3)

    Instead of that you can have all xm a microphone. There is a rule: The 2nd microphone should be 3 times farther away than the sound from the first mic....

    http://www.musik-produktion-createc.ch/Createc-Chor-gross-Aufnahme_b.jpg

    X/Y for each microfon position is not necessary. An ORTF over all can be give an even fuller sound but keep in mind that you will have more room and also time delays which should be compensated. More microfones are not always better. Nevertheless having more recources (channels) is always a good advice.

    BTW Here is an example with EBS (over all microphones - mainly thought for the instruments, and 4 microphones for the choir). Keep in mind that these choir singers often are soloists. So the aim was here that you are able to here each voice... 😉


    Best Beat


    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • Hi Beat!

    Thank you again for your advices and ideas. I will experiment with the different microphone settings during choir practice and hopefully get some good results.

    By the way: Also thank you for your VSL tutorials. Bought them last year and they helped me getting started with VSL!

    Best, Ben


    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
  • Finally recording is over :)
    I used an ORFT for the entire choir (7.5m distance) and a mono-mic per voice (2m distance) (distance between voices: 2m).
    The mono-mics goes into MIR + MIRacle and is then mixed with the ORTF + MIRacle signal.

    The result is really convincing and it sounds really great. The ORTF "connects" the mono-mics for a better spacial impression.
    The only issue I experienced was with the VE Pro audio-input plugin (pops and clicks); so I had to use the MIR standalone plugin for the recordings.

    This forums helped me a lot by reading about other peoples issues and solutions. So thanks to everyone here!

    Image


    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
  • Hello Ben

    Thanks for posting some info about the result.

    If I understood you correctly, then you recorded with the ORTF stereo method and send it second time via the ORTF engine of MIR ...
    ... Hmm? may be that it sounds good, but it can also be that 2x "space" is too much. I strongly recommend that you only try the result with a common reverb (algo).
    If you can and if you have the time please make two short examples.

    • Once choir mix without ME
    • Once choir mix with ME

    The results would interest me very much.

    All the best

    Beat


    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • Hello Beat,

    I have added reverb to the ORTF only with MIRacle, not MIR.
    I've added MIR only to the mono-mics (2m from the voices).
    I've then added the wet ORTF-mic then to the mix of the near mics; just as much until it glues everything.

    This was only possible because the room was almost dry, so you don't hear any reverb in the recordings.
    I will try to provide some examples (I have to ask the author for permission first).

    Best, Ben


    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
  • Hello Ben

    Sorry for my delay here. I am very busy at the moment.

    Thanks for the answer. I see, you did not use ORTF over ORTF. Then everything is fine and I do not need any examples. Apparently you are satisfied with the result. Glad to hear that.

    All the best

    Beat


    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/