Mixerless studio using G5's and MOTU's

[strawinsky]

I've recently taken the plunge and sold my 02R96 desk,deciding to "internalize"the mixing in Logic, via 3 MOTU 2408's,a 24 i/o and a second G5.Scary.Does anyone have any advice/tips concerning the configuration and routing of this setup?When I had the desk I connected it via ADAT to the master 2408,giving the me the (relative) luxury of spreading stuff over 8 tracks/channels on the desk.The way I seem to be forced to work now is everything is going into 1&2,which can overload the channel somewhat when one is running many tracks of audio,EXS,software and not to mention the hardware,which now input via the 24 i/o.

Any opinions or experiences would be very welcome,since I know that some of you are working without a physical desk these days (Evan?). Thanks in advance.

[Fred Story]

I'm a mixerless Logic user, and I would never go back.

You're right...you do have to keep a close watch on levels going to the master bus, especially if you have any mastering plugins on the output. Generally speaking, I simply try to keep a watch on individual track levels, and make generous use of busses to subgroup tracks - not only to ride levels on the group, but sometimes to apply EQ or processing to that group. For example, I'll sometimes put all drum tracks on a bus, horns on another, vocals on another, etc.

When I'm mixing something with a voiceover, I route the VO straight to the master outs, and put all music tracks on a seperate bus. That way I can ride music levels under the VO without having to bounce and re-import.

You'll figure out your own tricks and methods as you go. Good luck!

Fred Story

[strawinsky]

Thanks a lot,Fred,this is what I thought:so I'm not doing anything outlandish,as I imagined.It's strange,having worked with hardware for so long,to suddenly have everything inside the computer.I do have Logic Control,though,so it's not entirely alien. I've got an Avalon arriving on Monday,to warm up the front end!

[Nick Batzdorf]

I did the same thing.

One thing is to understand how the routing works with CueMix DSP. The incoming signal goes through the top on/off buttons and "trim pots," and from there to Logic *and* to the internal mixer (i.e. the onscreen faders in CueMix).

If you have Software Monitoring turned on in Logic and the big CueMix channels turned on, you'll hear the signal twice - once with latency (through Logic) and once without (CueMix).

It would be great if Input objects in Logic could switch between software and direct monitoring, but alack. So when I'm mixing in Logic, which I'm starting to do, I simply mute the CueMix channels and turn on Software Monitoring.

To complicate matters I also have Pro Tools MIX hardware on the same G4, but that's another story. [8-)]

[strawinsky]

Thanks,Nick. Yeah,I was aware of that doubled signal thing.The guys in the UK told me I should ignore the Cue Mix,as far as Logic goes,but in my experience,I've that sometimes I need to get in there and tweak,like you're doing with the mutes.I agreee:it would be good if Logic had some kind of control over it directly.

Things will smooth out:I'm definitely going to set up some busses to spread the signal,and give me the flexibility of a hardware mixer.In fact,anything a hardware mixer can do,I should be able to emulate in software,and more.Just got to think different.Hey! Now that's quite a good slogan,eh? Someone should use that for selling computers.

[Nick Batzdorf]

I don't agree at all that you should ignore Cue Mix DSP, because that's how you monitor with "no" latency using the card's DSP. That's the whole point of the card!

We're saying the same thing, but I have a very different way of looking at it.

Having said that, with a 64-sample buffer, the latency is pretty minimal for monitoring Giga.

[strawinsky]

Yeah,thanks,Nick.I also run a PC with GS and have never had a problem with latency. I definitely will be using the Cuemix.

[homebilly]

i just dumped my 03d and went mixerless too. i got the mackie big knob for monitoring and so far so good. i had to put my external synths on a patchbay and then 8 channels from the patchbay to the 828mkII.
i can monitor the 828 and my 2408 that's on another computer. then when it's time to mix & print i just route the 2408 into the 828 via lightpipe and voila.

i like the monitoring on the big knob. it's just a button and it's active.

[strawinsky]

The Big Knob caught my eye (probably 'cos it's so big):I'm pleased to say that so far ,so good.I don't miss the desk at all,and it's great to be able to turn off the synths' effects and use superior software ones. I'll be ridding myself of some of the hardware synths,though,since the software equivalents seem to be better (and quieter);but I'm very definitely going to add some top whack hardware proccessing to route into Logic.The Avalon is already turning out to be one of the best things I've ever bought.

I'm loving this. [:D]

[Nick Batzdorf]

The Presonus Central Station is also very nice - more expensive than the Big Knob, but the next step up because of its features (including a pretty nice DAC and also a separate remote so you don't have all those wires on your desk).

I ended up going with the Blue Sky BMC (Bass Management Controller), though, because a) it handles 5.1 surround, which I'm sure I'll need one of these days, and b) because it has bass management built in - i.e. a crossover and individual level controls so I can defeat and adjust the level of the sub in my Blue Sky monitors. It also has a Reference level switch that jumps to your preferred level regardless of where the "pot" is; you can also use that switch to toggle instantly between the ref level and the "pot" level. It's digitally-controlled analog.

And to my surprise, I don't miss having the mixer either. Synths and computer outputs are pretty much set-and-forget; as long as you have a Mute switch to grab if things get ugly, you don't really need to be able to adjust levels by grabbing a fader. I should add that I haven't mixed on that mixer for years - it just sat off to the side routing things exactly the same way the MOTU stuff is doing now.

[strawinsky]

Nick:didn't I see your name on the Ramsa DA7 forum? I had one of those for some time and very good it was too,but the lure of the 02R96 became too great. I never did work at 96K though! And I hardly ever touched its faders and never used the effects or eq....an expensive waste of space.

[Nick Batzdorf]

Yes, I had a DA7 for years. Please don't mention that I sold it - it would be considered sacrilege. [:)]

[strawinsky]

You didn't sell it. [[;)]]