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  • Oh no...he didn't just use the words epic orchestral!

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    Greetings all,

    I know that the words "epic orchestral" may induce a gag response in many composers on this forum, but I hope that it will not prevent you from purusing at least a few selections from my newest digital album, "Dawn of a New Era". In particular, you may enjoy the Wild Riders of the Rugged Steep, for which a fellow composer said was reminiscent of Conan the Barbarian. Also Soaring, Dawn of a New Era, Memorial for a Fallen Hero, and Perilous Crusade are richly orchestrated and hopefully rise above the typical "epic orchestral fare" that is so prevalent.

    All of this music is realized with the Vienna Symphonic Cube, standard libraries.

    Thanks in advance if you check out some of the tracks!

    Dawn of a New Era - orchestral music


  • Sounds very good - this seems like something a production library would be interested in.  

  • Acclarion, what sample libraries did you use? Are your tracks 100% VSL, or partially VSL? The very short clips sound good, although it is hard to really comprehend the composition with such short clips.

  • Thank you, William.  I am actually shopping it to production libraries as we speak.

    Thanks, Paul.  Similar to William expressing frustration on his own thread about the desire to actually sell/earn money from music as professionals, my album is on CD Baby and the previews are hopefully incentive to purchase the album or at least individual .99 tracks.  Hundreds of hours have gone in to the composition and recording of this album and I've yet to sell a single track, with several days of endless social media marketing, forum visits, etc. 

    I'm not ashamed to admit the lack of sales, because I'm proud of the quality of it.  Rather, I think it speaks to the already widely held belief that people just aren't willing to pay for music.  We'll pay thousands for DAWs, sample libraries, and virtually every other item needed to make music, but nobody will support artists unless they're household names and media-created entertainment entities.

    Anyway, as for your question; most of the tracks are exclusively VSL.  A select few use some Kontakt instruments as well, but 95% of it is VSL.

    All the best,


  • Dave, I know what you're talking about concerning all the work put in, and then a paltry amount of sales.  We should consider how J.S. Bach had to kowtow to aristocrats, Mozart was dead-broke when he died, Schubert's Ninth sat in a drawer for a hundred years before being played, etc. etc. etc. - many examples. 

    However we should also remember  Beethoven, who slammed piano lids down and stormed out of rooms  when aristocrats tried to treat him like a servant.  

  • Hi Dave,

    I'm not gagging... There's 'epic' and epic (in the Greek classic meaning and in the cinematic version). As long as it doesn't mean huge, big, blown up without any content (only gigantic effects), I can perfectly live with it. But enough of my preferences.

    It's obvious that you've put an enormous amount of time and effort in these pieces. I've listened to all of the excerpts and I must say that they are simply great. Not only your mix, but also the post production (did you hire a sound engineer to do the mastering?). Definitely a magnificent job with a beautiful unity, just like a CD should have.

    As to the frustration: in Haydn's time and before, musicians, composers were considered to be lackeys, servants... But of course times have evolved. In the 21st century most composers have other jobs (teachers, performers...) and see their compositions as the most personal expression of themselves, independant from kings, popes, bishops, lords and other financially fortuned people. But here raises the ultimate question: if music is no longer commissioned, who will ultimately pay for it (or who will listen to it)? Despite zealous effort music will only reach very small circles and next to that, lots of luck are needed to catch the attention of those who can make the difference. (And quality is not necessarily the keyword anymore.) All we can do is trying and keep trying, believing in ourselves and our music.
    But some years ago I had an opposite experience. My chamber orchestra was asked by a Rotary Club to play a concert of light music. When negociating the performance fee, I told them the normal price (which was at that time € 1000 for a 9 persons ensemble). As soon as they heard the price, the began to ask questions (if everything was included, if there was an additional transport fee...). I had the feeling that the price was too high... How wrong! They had something like € 10,000 in mind and we didn't have the concert (for our price we couldn't possibly be good enough...). Of course this is snobbism, because none of them understood something  about music, but it illustrates where the money is and who is 'buying' music nowadays and for what reasons.

    I strongle believe that quality eventually prevails and that we must persevere in our efforts to draw attention to it. We all know how difficult this is and braking in into the self protecting circles sometimes seems quite impossible.

    But let's believe in ourselves!


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    Hi Dave,

    I am no expert (and I know I am still yet to respond to William's request that I post my own music and not just my opinions...I will someday soon), but if I may, just wanted to make a note in response to your post.

    Firstly I enjoyed listening to your clips, no doubt you put 1000s of hours on it. Have you considered posting some full clips on YT to attract an audience first?

    Related to first question is, if you want to make money with music why wouldn't you just seek out film scoring gigs since that seems to be the best avenue to money with orchestral type of music in this day and age (granted its not easy to make money even there).. That way you need not care if anyone buys your music clips. I am sure there is a whole range of movies in the industry for you to start small and gain recognition/experience.

    Second question, who is your intended listener? A classical or orchestral flim music enthusiast or a common person? 'A person on the street' who is into music is hardly interested in classical or film scores. Even if they enjoy the movie, they couldnt care to listen to the soundscore separately let alone buy the CD. It is too complex for them unless there is a singable melody like Star wars or Indian Jones scores. Also, as you said, there is an amazing amount of music thats out there and all for free. I am not talking Justibn Beiber and or just media created entities. There is thousands of hours of high quality orchestral flim music all available for free on YT in high quality, including all of John williams, Jerry Godsmith and dating back to Bernard Hermann and Max steiner and incredible film music like this from 1927: Metropolis score by Gottfried Huppertz. Even the sheet music is starting to be avaliable for free on YT. As for classical music, I have just begun discovering some late romantic music on YT and completely bowled over...for instance Scriabin:

    And there is music from 100s of amazing composers. I feel like I need 10 lives to just even understand these pieces.

    I have zero knowledge of the music industry and my ignoramus take on this is that since so much music has been done in the classical/orchestral genre, one of the few avenues for financial return is to accompany the music to a motion picture, whether movies or documentaries...

    But again I am not interested personally in selling my music at least for now and am purely doing this for fun and also because I find it very challenging and VSL is simply the best toy for this out there.

    I will continue to enjoy the clips you post here though;)

    Wishing you the best and hopeyou continue to enjoy music making.


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    OK I am not an expert in selling music today at all. And I ever evaded to think on any commercial meaning of music making.

    IMHO the great opportunity today is, that with the rich digital means we are now more and more able to realise our Ideas without any other "Stars" which tell us in any way what we should like or not.

    So if I listen to your music Dave I hope I am not to wrong with the impression, that it at least correponds mostly with any kind of cinematic scenery. You are able to realise the music, so before sticking at that point, go beyond and look for the digital tools to realise also the corresponding scenery yourself. Create what exactly you imagine. Music and Film. Nothing is impossible today 😉

    Of course this still is not that probable to make you rich and famous, because since everybody tries to get rich and famous per internet, nearly nobody realy does anymore.

    But it imho is still satisfying to realise consequent, your own Ideas and if it is music or even music and film like that how much more satisfying is it than the cat-videos, or lipsticktutorials which the average youtuber provides to draw some attention on their lifes.

    In short: VSL is great since it allows us to do great things, far from the queston who earns how what money this is simply great in itself and I do have the impression you alreeady use that opportunity in your personal way, what ever should be wrong with it?

    Hi Dave

    Nice and well reflectet answer! Btw, @Scriabin: did you already know my VSL-Scriabin-recording:

    Poeme of Fire: Promethé for Piano and Orchestra op.60

    (this is btw. my first very simple attempt to combine music and video, since the score demands the use of colours corresponding to the music meanwhile I would never call that "epic" in any way 😉)

  • Thank you gentlemen, for your detailed and thought-provoking comments.  First, I'm greatly appreciative of your kind words re. the music.  

    As to how to go about generating income from music, this is clearly an ongoing battle we all face.  As a performer, I've always based my decisions on whether or not to pursue something (be it a performance, recording, outreach initiative, etc.) on the 3 C's:  cash, career (an important contact, visibility opportunity, etc.), community (charitable benefit, feel good experience, etc.).  For me to be willing to do something, it had to check off at least 2 of the 3 boxes.

    Now, as a composer, I feel I continue to write music and don't get to check off even one of the boxes.  There's never any cash (actually there's the negative cash effect as I must pay for all the hardware/software/webhosting, etc. in order to simply write music and put it out there).  There's been no career boosting opportunities, even after having music performed by professional symphonies and chamber musicians (that always want the music for free).  And even community outreach initiatives via schools always leads to one-off opportunities with no momentum-building to speak of.

    However, in spite of all this, I remain an optimist at heart.  My wife and I literally gave up two six figure careers at the exact same time 4 years ago to pursue music full time...we relocated from one end of Canada to another, downsized our lifestyle, and went to work learning how to use virtual instruments while organizing concerts, teaching lessons, and a variety of other mundane activities to earn some income.  4 years on, we're expecting our first child next month, and while the prospect of 2 musicians providing for a little one is frightening at best, we're confident we'll make it work.

    I calculated that I'd need to sell 40 tracks to buy one package of diapers.  I'm only 40 track sales away from my first package of diapers :) lol

    Anyway, to all of you that enjoy writing music as much as I do, I applaud your creative spirit and will to contribute your art to our apathetic world.  It does brighten someone's day, and this forum alone shows that there will always be a select group of people that understand the worth and importance of the work we all do.

    All the best,


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    Hi Acclarion,

    If you decided to "to pursue music full time" It is nothing wrong with "organizing concerts, teaching lessons, and a variety of other mundane activities to earn some income." As far as I know this was exactly what Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann and most of the finest and nearly all good (perhaps only for us less popular) musicians has always done.

    No one here can presumably predict anyone for sure any success. However, even as a constantly nervous and pessimistic german as I am I still believe there are opportunities for everyone, I am sure If you do (all) what you are able to, sooner or later you will be asked to do everything you are doing well.

    best whishes for you and your endearing little musicians family.😃

  • PaulP Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on