@William said:

I have also been reading recently about the mind control psychology of these sites - it is disturbing.  I think any composer should get paid upfront for any use of his music - screw "promotion" - that is the biggest joke. It is being foisted off on actual music creators by all these sites.  But the reality is -  people listen, then move on.  And never pay a cent.    

I hope you succeed, as you certainly deserve to do so. I purchased all three of your CD's from CD Baby. I see also that you have several individual pieces on that site, including Nearing Andromeda, which I just purchased for 99 cents. Well worth that price for such a polished tone poem.

What all of us who love new tonal (for lack of a better term) classical music need is an online magazine, or vlog or blog that would tell us about new music and composers of interest. The atonal, experimental and minimalist composers have completely taken over the established classical music genre and poisoned the well.

Listening to "Nearing Andromeda" as I write this, I marvel at the excellent quality. Composition, orchestration, AND mixing are all excellent.

Thanks Paul. 

I agree on the need for having something like that.

"The atonal, experimental and minimalist composers have completely taken over the established classical music genre and poisoned the well". 

Seriously Paul? If I were Charles Ives I'd tell you to use your ears like a man.

However, I'm not, but I am still as dismayed as Ives probably was. Music is a fluid art that responds to the zietgeist.

You might not like anything beyond a certain period in the art, and that is fine but to say that innovations in the 20thC and beyond have  poisoned the well does not take into account what happens to the water in that well if it is not refreshed ocassionally.

Sorry William, I just had to respond to that post - there are some of us who think differently and glib statements often  tend to coalesce into insensitive dogma.

@mh-7635 said:

 

"The atonal, experimental and minimalist composers have completely taken over the established classical music genre and poisoned the well". 

Seriously Paul? If I were Charles Ives I'd tell you to use your ears like a man.

However, I'm not, but I am still as dismayed as Ives probably was. Music is a fluid art that responds to the zietgeist.

You might not like anything beyond a certain period in the art, and that is fine but to say that innovations in the 20thC and beyond have  poisoned the well does not take into account what happens to the water in that well if it is not refreshed ocassionally.

Sorry William, I just had to respond to that post - there are some of us who think differently and glib statements often  tend to coalesce into insensitive dogma.

I read the above post and I understand your position.

My statement to which you objected does not represent insensitivity or a casual expression of a passing whim. I have loved classical music all of my life. I earned a degree in music composition in 1976 and sadly wrote plenty of digusting and ugly atonal and avante garde music to get that degree. So while I respect your right to disagree with my conclusions, please do not make the mistake of equating disagreement with your opinion as being insensitive dogma, or simply an expression of what I personally like or dislike.

@William said:

I have removed all music from Soundcloud and Facebook.  As well as all other services that do not pay me upfront.  The only music I will post is for sale, not for free.  Because I am doing that I am being contrary to all current internet social media which demands everything for free from creators.  Musician and composers, as we know, do not deserve to be paid any money for years of study, work, practice and striving for improvement, and need to do everything they do for free for drooling morons on the internet everywhere.  Please keep that in mind.  

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences William.  Although I considered it at one time I never took the Soundcloud plunge.  As for Facebook, I tried it for about a week but then I just found it irritating.

But be careful with CD Baby.  Some unscrupulous filmakers out there will buy your CD then use your music in their movies, documenaries, shorts etc. without paying the royalties.  Not to mention the cost of a CD is a pretty cheap licensing fee.

There are watchdog services like Tunesat but you have to pay for them. 

Paul and Mike,

I think you're both right.  However, Paul, I think the problem with most filmscores today is that they are not minimal enough.  Everybody wants to hear the big bombastic "epic" score nowadays.  Personally, I think less is more and I've always been impressed by composers who could do more with less.  Bernard Herrmann comes to mind.

Atonal music can be done skillfully.  Suzanne Ciani made the Buchla synthesizer a household name in the electronic music scene back in the 70's and early 80's but she is also an accomplished Classical pianist and composer who can deliver, and has repeatedly, in the tonal world as well.  Her music has been an inspiration to me BTW. 

But Mike I think Paul is refferning to the software junkies of today or what I call the mouse clicker prodigies.  Persoanlly, I'm not impressed with what people can do with their sound designing software.  They just layer stuff on top of each other then turn some knobs and run it all through some virtual filters.  Ehh... Whatever.  But take a Buchla with all the spaghetti patch connections going in hundreds of directions and write a score with that.  

Paul,

My statement to which you objected does not represent insensitivity or a casual expression of a passing whim. I have loved classical music all of my life. I earned a degree in music composition in 1976 and sadly wrote plenty of digusting and ugly atonal and avante garde music to get that degree. So while I respect your right to disagree with my conclusions, please do not make the mistake of equating disagreement with your opinion as being insensitive dogma, or simply an expression of what I personally like or dislike.

So you wrote "plenty of disgusting and ugly atonal and avant garde music" huh... is that in the pejorative, or are you regretting that you didn't write some beautiful and good atonal music with which to earn your degree? I bet I know the answer to that one and it probably wont be an admittance that good and great music can be written in said styles. If you are speaking pejoratively, well, I say again, I think it's now more than a little insensitive.

The language you use is inflammatory to people who like to express themselves in what is clearly an aural abomination to you. I have absolutely no problem with you not liking any music beyond your personal aesthetics,  but show a little tact when stating as such, otherwise people may come at you on the offensive.

Either way, your words are surely an expression of how you feel or like about music if nothing else.

Paul, I understand that academia has a bee in its bonnet about modernism and it is unfortunate that they may well force students into a creative corner, but disregarding some of the greatest musicians in the last 100 years or so as composers who have spoilt the well and whose music is disgusting and ugly is quite a statement.

@mh-7635 said:

The language you use is inflammatory to people who like to express themselves in what is clearly an aural abomination to you. I have absolutely no problem with you not liking any music beyond your personal aesthetics,  but show a little tact when stating as such, otherwise people may come at you on the offensive.

mh-7635

Rather than continue to hijack Williams thread, perhaps you should start a new thread. Or if you simply want to insult or attack me personally, send me a PM.

Paul T. McGraw

Hi Jasen,

Thanks for trying to referee, but I'm pretty sure Paul is not talking about film scores. I'm sure he will clarify that if he feels so inclined. I agree about the mouse clicking brigade, but for me, they also have a place in music, because they too are expressing themselves. OK maybe their efforts are not as polished as a trained or distinctive and original composers' might be, but nevertheless, their music is still valid even if only for themselves.

It's funny that you say atonal music can be done skilfully and I am assuming you are comming at that from a filmscore perspective. It actually often takes many years of experience and study to write fluently and with conviction in a free floating gravitationless sound world. It is not for the faint-hearted or unadventurous ear and any composer who finds himself at the gate leading to atonality has to be of sure conviction and belief that he/she is ready for the journey if they are going to be sincere.  The idea is not to produce ugly and disgusting music, but to explore ones' imagination and feelings in sound.

Paul this is NOT an ad hominem attack. I explained myself above, so never mind...sorry William.

@mh-7635 said:

The language you use is inflammatory to people who like to express themselves in what is clearly an aural abomination to you. I have absolutely no problem with you not liking any music beyond your personal aesthetics,  but show a little tact when stating as such, otherwise people may come at you on the offensive.

mh-7635

Rather than continue to hijack Williams thread, perhaps you should start a new thread. Or if you simply want to insult or attack me personally, send me a PM.

Paul T. McGraw

[/quote]

Hi Jasen,

Thanks for your post. I'm looking forward to hearing more of your music soon. Let's not hijack Williams's thread any further at this point.

Paul T. McGraw