@agitato said:

One question.

Suppose the key is not lost but somehow gets damaged, say by fire, or simply stops working. (USBs do fail eventually, you know...)

I would imagine that atleast in this scenario, VSL can provide a duplicate license on a new key, provided we mail in the old key to show evidence that no one else can use it.

Please tell me this is true. If not, I will stop buying any more VSL products, since this would mean that my investment is tied to a piece of electronic component that is bound to fail sooner or later.

Anand

Sorry, I did find an answer to my question earlier in this thread, but it still is pretty disappointing. So, essentially we need to buy a key every 2 years to stay within the warranty...and all this is only to cover non accidental failure to the dongle.

Sounds pretty arcane to me, if not cruel. My sympathies to the poor folks who lost the key and spent 1000s more. I am puzzled how this is legal and VSL is getting away with it?  Looks like daylight robbery! If I buy a product I must own it without having to pay for it again and again, period. The analogy someone gave with a car is quite apt. 

I have lost keys from other libraries such as EastWest, and all I had to do was buy a new key and they issued a new license number based on the products that I had. That way the old license numbers would become invalid.

Pretty sure something like that can be worked out. Considering that VSL is such an outstanding company and product in EVERY other aspect including customer service,  I am amazed you havent solved this simple issue.

As I thought more about this, another paradox confounds me. I do not understand why the hardware warranty should be linked to the software license? So you say that if we buy a new dongle every 2 years, you can replace with a new one and install the licenses on that provided we send the old one etc.,. Now why should this have anything to do with whether we have a hardware warranty or not? To be more clear, suppose that I did not have the warranty and I my dongle fails, what is preventing you from doing a similar license transfer assuming I pay for a new dongle (given I dont have the warranty)? 

Mysterious logic!

Anand

P.S. Reading Paul's post I do realize you are working on a solution. I am sure you can and will solve this....

Hi Paul,

thank you for answering so quickly. Would it be possible to give at least a rough time frame? What are we looking at? Weeks, months, years? I was hoping a solution could be presented much sooner, but a year in and we are non the wiser. I start wondering if presenting a solution is at all that important to VSL.

Hi Dominique, 

I understand your position, but we have been burned with release dates that didn't work as we expected, so we are now very careful with announcement. Too much disappointment on both sides. 

Best, 
Paul

I want to add my voice to how much I disagree with and hope for alternate solutions here.

Let us sign up for on-line only mode where the software only works when we're signed in (one computer at a time) online!  If not that something must be possible.  This is such an old fashioned policy.  It seems crazy to me.

Worse, it feels like Vienna is willing to punish their faithful, honest, paying customers over some vague belief that it'll somehow harm them.  Dishonest people have already and will always crack the software.  How does a policy that punishes your good customers help with that in any way?

To be completely honest, this issue gives me a tummy ache every time I take my Vienna key with me.  Although I love the libraries, I'm so stressed about it all the time, I'm almost to the point of looking for other solutions.  I had planned on purchasing the entire libary, but I work on a Surface Pro 3.  I've lost hardware before.  Losing a computer is bad enough.  Losing thousands of dollars of instruments as well.  Ugh.  Everytime I think about buying more instruments, this is like a brick wall of impending doom for me.

I am not a big fan of the dongle protection in this form either, but I understand the need for protection, and I can live with it. As far as I know eLicenser dongle protection was not cracked to this day.
I use VSL mostly at home to avoid loosing the dongle; this can be very stressful because the lost-policy fee is really high.

I would like it if VSL could get access to Steinberg's recovery thing. I would still avoid loosing my key, but it would be less scary to work on the go or take your key to different workplaces. An online-only mode is not the a solution for me, but I could live with it if the dongle needs internet connection every 30 days or so, so lost or stolen keys can be disabled.

What I would like is an online protection system, with some days of use allowed when no connection can be found. This will allow VSL to always check who is using their software, and protect the user from temporary lack of connection.

Disconnected computer are now a very rare exception. Publishing or notation software can only work if the computer is connected. Text editors find their raison d'être in synchronizing between devices. On the other side, firewalls included in the operating system are so advanced, that intrusions are someone that can concern only users target for a serious reason.

No more USB keys to move between computer. No more fear of having it broken, lost or stolen. Just a kind hand weaving between our computer and the VSL's servers when starting a work session.

Paolo

@agitato said:

If I buy a product I must own it without having to pay for it again and again, period. The analogy someone gave with a car is quite apt. 

Actually it isn't apt at all.  Remember, we're dealing with intellectaul property here not tangible items like a car.  When you purchase a library license, you're not purchasing the library itself, your purchasing permission to use it.

The car analogy would be better, although not completey accurate, if it was, you're not buying a car you're buying permission to use it.  So you can use that car anytime you want and drive anywhere you want but there are some restrictions like you can't use it for ride sharing such as Uber or Lyft.

Don't get me wrong Anand, I'm not a cheerleader for this dongle system and judging from some of the recent posts by VSL representatives they are not fans of it either but the reason it has gone on for so long must be because the alternatives are just not satisfactory to VSL upper management. Or, there is something in the works it just hasn't been finalized yet.  But for the record, I am not in favor of an online verification system. Sorry but in my particular situation it would be just too much of a hassle.   If VSL can provide some options for people in my situation then fine but I hope that whatever they have in the works isn't dependant on the Internet.

@jasensmith said:

Actually it isn't apt at all.  Remember, we're dealing with intellectaul property here not tangible items like a car.  When you purchase a library license, you're not purchasing the library itself, your purchasing permission to use it.

The car analogy would be better, although not completey accurate, if it was, you're not buying a car you're buying permission to use it.  So you can use that car anytime you want and drive anywhere you want but there are some restrictions like you can't use it for ride sharing such as Uber or Lyft.

Don't get me wrong Anand, I'm not a cheerleader for this dongle system and judging from some of the recent posts by VSL representatives they are not fans of it either but the reason it has gone on for so long must be because the alternatives are just not satisfactory to VSL upper management. Or, there is something in the works it just hasn't been finalized yet.  But for the record, I am not in favor of an online verification system. Sorry but in my particular situation it would be just too much of a hassle.   If VSL can provide some options for people in my situation then fine but I hope that whatever they have in the works isn't dependant on the Internet.

Ok. Even with the 'permission to use' car analogy, if I paid money for the permission, and I lose they key, wouldnt it be more fair if I just need to buy a replacement key rather than an entire replacement of the permission?

Anyways, I understood later that the need for purchasing licenses at 50% arises only for lost dongles. I initially thougth it applies to damaged dongles that are out of the 2 year waranty as well.  What I understand now is that if I have a damaged key that is out of warranty period, I can pay for a new key and reactivate the license at 20 euros/license, which I can live with. Hope I am correct in that.

Anand

@agitato said:

Anyways, I understood later that the need for purchasing licenses at 50% arises only for lost dongles. I initially thougth it applies to damaged dongles that are out of the 2 year waranty as well.  What I understand now is that if I have a damaged key that is out of warranty period, I can pay for a new key and reactivate the license at 20 euros/license, which I can live with. Hope I am correct in that.

Anand

That's correct. 20 EUR per license, minimum fee is 30 EUR. 

Best, 
Paul

@agitato said:

Ok. Even with the 'permission to use' car analogy, if I paid money for the permission, and I lose they key, wouldnt it be more fair if I just need to buy a replacement key rather than an entire replacement of the permission?

You're absolutely right Anand it would be more fair, to you and me, but not to VSL. You see, VSL has to pay Elicenser for those licenses (keys to the car so to speak).  When you loose your key, new licenses will have to be reissued and VSL has to pay for those so they're merely passing those costs on to the user who lost his key.

I think it was you who said this was an arcane system and you're right about that.  Also, this having to buy a new key every two years is getting old especially when you can't do a mass transfer of licenses from the old key to the new.  You have to transfer them one at a time and that is very irritating.  Hopefully, there is another system in the works that will be satisfactory to all.

Makes sense. Thanks Jasen and Paul.

I understand VSL is not out to make us suffer and that there is a valid reason why things are the way they are.

But I am sure they will work out a good solution soon...the company is remarkably efficient and high quality in every other aspect.

Anand

P.S. btw Jasen your signature quote is funny....not sure what he really meant by that.

Like it, thanks.

Aren't keys already protected againt breakage for 2 years? Or is that just against failure?

Thanks Al Lupo!
Bill, without the Vienna Protection Plan, ViennaKeys have a 2-year limited warranty against failure, as long as there's no physical damage to the key. This will stay the same, but with the Protection Plan you're also protected against loss, theft and any kind of malfunction.

Does the Protection Plan cover an eLicenser key older than 2 years?
And can you move the protection between two keys just like any license?

Hi bbelius,

Yes, and yes. :)
Kindly note though that only the key that holds the Vienna Protection Plan license is protected. If you have several keys, simply get as many Protecion Plans as you need.

Best,
Stefan

Hey Lars,

Absolutely, we'll send you an email in time, before a Protection Plan expries. In addition, you can check expiration dates, if you have Protection Plans registered, right here at MyVSL/MyProtectionPlans. 😊

Best, Stefan

Hi Stefan et al

I am greatly relieved to learn of the 2year protection plan option. I have purchased mine right away.

Paul R