I'm a relatively new user of Cubase 8.5, VE Pro and Vienna Suite Pro. I'm learning to create recordings of my own symphonic compositions and orchestrations with the Vienna samples. My greatest challenge is to create a realistic brass sound, in particular the trumpet and the French horn. Even after using Beat Kaufmann's great tutorial, I can't find the right attack of tones, a nice light vibrato and a clear overall sound.
Does anyone know any step-by-step tutorials or examples explaining how to create such a beautiful trumpet sound as for example Guy Bacos reached in the demo's on https://vsl.co.at/en/Brass_I/TrumpetC#!Demos? I would like to know:
Which settings within VI I could use?
Which Vienna Suite Pro settings I could use (multiband limiter pro, equalizer pro, hybrid reverb pro)?
If I've missed any Vienna components or other important settings to create a real trumpet sound.
Which library do you have? If you're using Brass samples from one of the SE collections you're choices are going to be limited as far as articulations you have available and that might be part of the problem.
I don't know for certain but I would venture a guess that Guy uses the extended libraries with everything VSL has in it's arsenal with regards to trumpet(s)
I'm using VI Pro 2 with the extended single instrument libraries.
Since you're referencing three of Guy's pieces maybe he can chime in to give you a better response but from what I'm hearing in those pieces it sounds like just about every other note is a different articulation and a lot of dynamics. Maybe he's using a breath controller? If you don't have one of those then you're just going to have to practice with the mod wheel both Vel X Fade and Expression faders. Also, attacks should be manipulated in real time. I don't know about Guy but I set the Release fader from 65 to 70 and leave it alone.
Sometimes a slight delay will really bring out those brass instruments but the trick is not to go overboard (If you can actually hear the delay then you've gone too far).
As for Vienna Suite, there are presets for brass with the compressor and EQ. Also, sometimes I like to spice brass up a little with the Vienna Exciter.
In reality, your question is pretty much like asking "Could somebody give me a step by step process for learning how to play (insert any instrument here).
So here goes:
Step 1. Practice
Step 2. Repeat step 1 😊
This is kind of a trial and error process and short of hiring a tutor to sit down with you everybody has to cut their own path.
In reality, your question is pretty much like asking "Could somebody give me a step by step process for learning how to play (insert any instrument here).
It seems that one theme of the complex field of mixing matters is also: How to bring the trumpet in front as a soloist. This is what the demos of guy show beautifully. So here is a short instruction how to do this.
First of all - and it was mentioned above as well - presets are nice but they always are starting points because you never will have the same conditions with your mix than the one who created a preset for his situation.
Nevertheless I offer a piece played with the Piccolo Trumpet (Vivaldi) together with all the effects I used (see below and also at Youtube). My used effects in the trumpet channel:
1. EQ: It cuts the low and not used Frequencies and enhances the wanted brillance of the trumpet a bit. Use the Mastering EQ from the Suite or the Studio EQ from Cubase
2. A Sort of a Compresser (Vintage Warmer2 of PSP). It compresses the sound a bit and makes it more powerfull it also adds some "warmth" (distortions). Compressed (thicker) sound often can better stay over an other - not compressed - sound. You also can use the compressor from VSL or the Vintage Compressor from Cubase
3. Panner unfortunately I didn't use the powerpanner. Nevertheless, I reduced the stereo width a bit and panned the trumpet a bit to the right because there are the violas - so the violins (same tone-range) can never "cover" the trumpet sound and vice versa. Use the Powerpanner of the SUITE EFFECTS
4. Then I used a psycho-acoustic effect: "Character" (just a little 10%). This effect seems to bring out soloists a bit more... but it is really not necessary.
5. Reverb: I used an extra reverb for the solo trumpet. I adjusted it the way that the trumpet stays in front though the amount of reverb is 25%. One trick is to increase the predelay, not to use an convolution reverb - better: start with an algo-reverb with a "Plate-Preset". Nevertheless, the trumpet reverb sound should fit to the one you use with the orchestra. Use the Hybrid-Reverb of the SUITE EFFECTS (without any IR) or Roomworks from Cubase.
6. EQ Finally i used an EQ gain for enhancing the highest frequency range of the trumpet. Brillant means close to a listener - a darker sound means farther away. Mastering-EQ of the SUITE works well (StudioEQ Cubase)
As you can see I didn't create a new trumpet sound with the EQs or other effects. I only tried to bring the trumpet in front of the orchestra as a real soloist. A nice effect would also be to use for example MIRx (MIR) for the orchestra but not for the solo instrument (trumpet). The trumpet would appear even more in the front compared to the orchestra. My final tipp: Analyse your favourite trumpet sound music pieces and try to build a similar mix. Most time the themes are left - right close and far (= also brillant and dark(er)).
- Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/
- Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
Nevertheless I offer a piece played with the Piccolo Trumpet (Vivaldi) together with all the effects I used (see below and also at Youtube).
This is very, very impressive work Beat. I would defy any classical music lover to detect that your work is virtual and not live musicians. And thank you for your willingness to share advice and tips.
I would defy any classical music lover to detect that your work is virtual and not live musicians.
Some years ago a student (Sound Engineer) made such an atempt and study. He mixed 8 different versions of Grieg's Holbergsuite: 6 real played recordings and two pieces played with samples. One of "sample versions" was the one with VSL-Samples (see at Demos). People had to vote whether a piece is real or virtual. The VSL-piece finally got a "95% real played"...
All the best
Beat
- Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/
- Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
I'm a relatively new user of Cubase 8.5, VE Pro and Vienna Suite Pro. I'm learning to create recordings of my own symphonic compositions and orchestrations with the Vienna samples. My greatest challenge is to create a realistic brass sound, in particular the trumpet and the French horn. Even after using Beat Kaufmann's great tutorial, I can't find the right attack of tones, a nice light vibrato and a clear overall sound.
Does anyone know any step-by-step tutorials or examples explaining how to create such a beautiful trumpet sound as for example Guy Bacos reached in the demo's on https://vsl.co.at/en/Brass_I/TrumpetC#!Demos? I would like to know:
Which settings within VI I could use?
Which Vienna Suite Pro settings I could use (multiband limiter pro, equalizer pro, hybrid reverb pro)?
If I've missed any Vienna components or other important settings to create a real trumpet sound.
Hi Mister Wood,
I wouldn't look for plugins or EQs as an answer. Keep the plug ins for topping. Recordings of the 1930s didn't have the greatest sound but you could feel the expression just as much and that's somethin the greatest plugin the world could never give you. Expression is bassically a contrast in sound, when using the exact same sound several times in a row, the sound becomes flat and expressionless. That's what all musicians learn as they refine their sound. You could be playing on a Stradivarious or Steinway in the best studio in the word with the latest plugins, and the result could still be dissapointing if the performance isn't there. Not to dimish the importance of plugins and stuff, but just making a point about what to focus on before those steps. Sometimes people ask me what speakers I use? I have very cheap speakers, I figure, if I can make it sound good on cheap speakers it will sound even better on good speakers. I hope this isn't boring you or perhaps not the answer you were looking for, it's just my philosphy, and perhaps a personal way of working. If ever one day I have time, I'd love to do a few videos on this.
may i suggest that you could post an example of your work here? I did it every time i was in doubt and it always led to drastic improvements of my rendition (or mix).
This gave me a lot of options to try and the files Beat uploaded will surely help. Ithink I'llstartwith the basics again and go back choosing the right samples.
I'll keep the suggestion of Francesco in mind and will post an example of my work if I have new questions.
