MIRx natural volume without MIRx

[LuCsa]

Dear forum! :)

I'm exploring the VSL SE and see myself confronted with the ever-so-present question of balancing. :D And of course, I stumbled over the MIRx Natural Volume Overview and would like to know the following.

This question is posed in the light of not owning a MIRx extension. :)

Will I achieve somehwat realistic effects (please bear in mind that I have little orchestration experience), if I adjust the volume sliders in the VE or in my DAW according to the list in the MIRx manual? Thus, percussion at 0db and the other instruments following the list (-11db piccolo, -16db Flute etc...)? Given that in the VI instances have the same CC7 Master Volume (and expression CC11 maybe)?

Thanks a lot!

Lukas

[Dietz]

Yes, those values should give you meaningful startingpoints.

HTH,

[LuCsa]

Shouldn't you be in bed.... I mean.... Thanks a lot to you! :) Next I'm going to check out the panning in the tutorials. :)

Good night, everybody.

[Dietz]

VSL - the company that never sleeps.  😴 

[LuCsa]

They work at night... let's check out sundays! :D

I'd really need another piece of advice in that matter...
I now adjusted the dB offsets according to the MIRx manual in the respective VI pro instance's matrix list.

When reading through the list I couldn't really understand how, for instance, the first violins get a -15db offset and the basses only -6db. It seemed counterintuitive as I'd expect it to be the other way around (just consider the size of the sections)!

And now, in a first very simple string harmony, the basses drown everything.

I have not yet adjusted the panning... But still, it feels that I'm doing something wrong here........ :(

Thank you!
Lukas

[Dietz]

Hi Lucas,

which "family" of strings section are you referring to? Appassionata, Orchestral, Chamber, Dimension Strings? Solo instruments?

Kind regards (on a Sunday ;-) ...),

[LuCsa]

Listening to the Adventures On Earth demo at the moment and the mail notification together with the music made me happy, haha! :D

I'm referring to the orchestral strings. :)
I don't want to restrict this question on the strings, though...

Keep in mind, I do not have a MIRx extension!

Happy sunday, you are beasts! :D

Lukas

[Dietz]

Orchestra Violins and Orchestra Basses are both listed with -9dB for MIR's Natural Volume feature. Please see p. 36 of the MIRx Manual.

HTH,

[LuCsa]

Oh thanks to the sample god and you... I grabbed a 2014 version of the manual... thank you, I'll try it out with the new values. :)

Kind regards,
Lukas

[MassMover]

Hello Dietz,

I have been using the 2014 version of the Natural Volume Table so far, and now took a look on the newer (2015) version. Obviously, some recently released instruments (solo voices for example) have been added, but there have been changes made also to some existing instruments, namely the Orchestral Strings, which alle have their db offset decreased by 3db (-9 instead of -12 for the violins), and the trombones.

But also some Instruments are completely missing in the new table. So, please shed some light on this:

- The Appassionata Strings (-6, -8, -7 and -7 in the 2014 Version) are missing

- Dimension Brass (only Tenor Trombones sordino are listed)

Finally, there are some patches called "Sections" (not ensembles). For example, what is meant by "11 Section Solo Strings"?

[LuCsa]

And I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the offsets with respect to the percussion. At medium volume of the orchestra I set the cymbals on 27 velocity to obtain a balanced result... I mean... I trust the MIRx offset list, but... it's making me wonder none the less. :D

[Dietz]

The list is meant as an additional service - the actual values are available in MIR Pro and MIRx anyway. I will try to make sure that the list gets updated ASAP, though.

Kind regards,

[tek0010]

@Dietz said:

Orchestra Violins and Orchestra Basses are both listed with -9dB for MIR's Natural Volume feature. Please see [url=http://eu.vsl.co.at/downloader.aspx?FileID=67923]p. 36 of the MIRx Manual[/url]. HTH,

but the software is setting vl and db to -13.5

[Dietz]

Thanks for pointing that out. As I wrote above: The manual needs an update. :-)

Kind regards,

[LuCsa]

Thanks for your help!

And... it's awesome that you even share this list of offsets etc. That's not to be taken for granted.

Is there, by the way, ever a scenario in which I use the percussion at maximum velocity? Because it seems that, if I turn down the volume enough to avoid hearing damage, I can't hear the rest of the orchestra for most of the time. :P

[Dietz]

... pretty much what would happen on a stage with an orchestra when you stand near a Tamtam being hit at fff.    🌩️ 

 

😉

[LuCsa]

Note to myself: Never stand next to a Tamtam being hit at fff. ;D

[MassMover]

@Dietz said:

... pretty much what would happen on a stage with an orchestra when you stand near a Tamtam being hit at fff.    

 

So for clarification: The natural Volume adjusts the volume levels as they would occur when every instrument of a live performance would be close-miked? So when applying these values without MIR I would have to further decrease the volume values of the individual sections according to how far they sit from the listening position, is that correct?

[Dietz]

I hardly dare to say "yes" - unless you promise not to use these values as rules, but rather as starting points for your own settings. :-)

Kind regards,

[JimmyHellfire]

I think you're trying to formalize all that a bit too much, guys. The Natural Volume values are a good starting point - for a pre-configured template, for example - but not a set-in-stone scientific formula for a perfect mix. Don't overthink it! If something's too loud, turn it down.