Yes, those values should give you meaningful startingpoints.

HTH,

Shouldn't you be in bed.... I mean.... Thanks a lot to you! :) Next I'm going to check out the panning in the tutorials. :)

Good night, everybody.

VSL - the company that never sleeps.  😴 

They work at night... let's check out sundays! :D

I'd really need another piece of advice in that matter...
I now adjusted the dB offsets according to the MIRx manual in the respective VI pro instance's matrix list.

When reading through the list I couldn't really understand how, for instance, the first violins get a -15db offset and the basses only -6db. It seemed counterintuitive as I'd expect it to be the other way around (just consider the size of the sections)!

And now, in a first very simple string harmony, the basses drown everything.

I have not yet adjusted the panning... But still, it feels that I'm doing something wrong here........ :(

Thank you!
Lukas

Hi Lucas,

which "family" of strings section are you referring to? Appassionata, Orchestral, Chamber, Dimension Strings? Solo instruments?

Kind regards (on a Sunday ;-) ...),

Listening to the Adventures On Earth demo at the moment and the mail notification together with the music made me happy, haha! :D

I'm referring to the orchestral strings. :)
I don't want to restrict this question on the strings, though...

Keep in mind, I do not have a MIRx extension!

Happy sunday, you are beasts! :D

Lukas

Orchestra Violins and Orchestra Basses are both listed with -9dB for MIR's Natural Volume feature. Please see p. 36 of the MIRx Manual.

HTH,

Oh thanks to the sample god and you... I grabbed a 2014 version of the manual... thank you, I'll try it out with the new values. :)

Kind regards,
Lukas

Hello Dietz,

I have been using the 2014 version of the Natural Volume Table so far, and now took a look on the newer (2015) version. Obviously, some recently released instruments (solo voices for example) have been added, but there have been changes made also to some existing instruments, namely the Orchestral Strings, which alle have their db offset decreased by 3db (-9 instead of -12 for the violins), and the trombones.

But also some Instruments are completely missing in the new table. So, please shed some light on this:

- The Appassionata Strings (-6, -8, -7 and -7 in the 2014 Version) are missing

- Dimension Brass (only Tenor Trombones sordino are listed)

Finally, there are some patches called "Sections" (not ensembles). For example, what is meant by "11 Section Solo Strings"?

And I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the offsets with respect to the percussion. At medium volume of the orchestra I set the cymbals on 27 velocity to obtain a balanced result... I mean... I trust the MIRx offset list, but... it's making me wonder none the less. :D

The list is meant as an additional service - the actual values are available in MIR Pro and MIRx anyway. I will try to make sure that the list gets updated ASAP, though.

Kind regards,

@Dietz said:

Orchestra Violins and Orchestra Basses are both listed with -9dB for MIR's Natural Volume feature. Please see [url=http://eu.vsl.co.at/downloader.aspx?FileID=67923]p. 36 of the MIRx Manual[/url]. HTH,

Thanks for pointing that out. As I wrote above: The manual needs an update. :-)

Kind regards,

Thanks for your help!

And... it's awesome that you even share this list of offsets etc. That's not to be taken for granted.

Is there, by the way, ever a scenario in which I use the percussion at maximum velocity? Because it seems that, if I turn down the volume enough to avoid hearing damage, I can't hear the rest of the orchestra for most of the time. :P

... pretty much what would happen on a stage with an orchestra when you stand near a Tamtam being hit at fff.    🌩️ 

😉

Note to myself: Never stand next to a Tamtam being hit at fff. ;D

@Dietz said:

... pretty much what would happen on a stage with an orchestra when you stand near a Tamtam being hit at fff.    

So for clarification: The natural Volume adjusts the volume levels as they would occur when every instrument of a live performance would be close-miked? So when applying these values without MIR I would have to further decrease the volume values of the individual sections according to how far they sit from the listening position, is that correct?

I hardly dare to say "yes" - unless you promise not to use these values as rules, but rather as starting points for your own settings. :-)

Kind regards,

I think you're trying to formalize all that a bit too much, guys. The Natural Volume values are a good starting point - for a pre-configured template, for example - but not a set-in-stone scientific formula for a perfect mix. Don't overthink it! If something's too loud, turn it down.

@Another User said:

I think you're trying to formalize all that a bit too much, guys. The Natural Volume values are a good starting point - for a pre-configured template, for example - but not a set-in-stone scientific formula for a perfect mix. Don't overthink it! If something's too loud, turn it down.

I, personally, am perfectly aware that I'm "formalizing" here, but it's important you stress that! 😊 However, and I can speak just for myself, my experience in this field is so little that I need such formulas for starting points. Some kind of guidance to compensate for a lack of knowledge.
If one tells me, "those are good basic settings, leave those settings untouched, because that's the way it is, but fiddle around with these to your liking", then I'm happy. (Which happened here. :P)

With the MIRx offsets, for instance, I feel that the flutes are too soft. So are the oboes and clarinets. Yesterday, I heard a rehearsal at the Musikverein in Wien and I tried to focus on the woodwinds for that matter. I could clearly hear the flute at all times but wasn't really able to distinguish the clarinet and oboe from the rest of the orchestra. My fried told me that, generally, the latter two need to be exposed and separated by the composer/orchestrator to be clearly audible, otherwise they just color the tone or merge with the violas for instance. --> turning the flutes up in my mixer would have been the right choice, possibly. But turning up oboes and clarinets maybe not (in my particular case they play in the same register as some other instruments)... do you see where this is going? 😄

All the best,
Lukas

PS.: I LOVE this forum... 😄