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  4. Harmonic Distortion - Is it Good for Classical Music?

  • Harmonic Distortion - Is it Good for Classical Music?

    N
    N

    As I am trying to improve my mix for my current project, I came across a plugin by Waves which enables you to add "Harmonic Distortion". Here is a link to it: http://www.waves.com/plugins/cobalt-saphira#introducing-cobalt-saphira

    Which makes me wonder, is Harmonic Distortion good for classical music? If so, in which cases would it be used best?

    These harmonics are usually added by hardware equipment (compressors/EQs/etc.) and the plugin enables you to add them and shape them without having to rely on a compressor or EQs.

    So I'm wondering what your take is on this subject, if it's used widely in classical music, and whether it's worth buying this plugin.

    Thank you!

    Nektarios
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD

    Harmonic distortion was/is an intrinsic part of all analogue audio equipment, so the anser is: Yes, it has been used widely for classical music (all over the place, actually). The older an recording, the more distortion and saturation you will encounter. Generations of sound engineers worked hard to get rid of it, and now that technology is almost there, we try to get it back on purpose. ;-D

    There are sooooo man plugins nowadays offering some kind of harmonic enrichment at least to _some_ extent (Vienna Suite's Compressor comes to mind, for example). It's hard to tell what Saphira will be able to add to the already existing colours. But then, Waves has always been a source for well-done, reliable products, so I'm sure it's at least worth trying.

    HTH,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • N
    N

    Thank you Dietz! 

    I see now. Interesting! Why would people like harmonic enrichment/distortion? I am not sure I understand when they say "it glues the mix"...
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD

    The ear seems to like distortion to a certain degree. More harmonics means more excitement. The most important aspect is to know when it's enough, though. ;-)

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • N
    N

    Ok, I see! Thanks!
  • J
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    @Dietz said:

    There are sooooo man plugins nowadays offering some kind of harmonic enrichment at least to _some_ extent (Vienna Suite's Compressor comes to mind, for example).

     

    Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Vienna Suite Exciter offer all kinds of harmonic enhancements?  I didn't realize the compressor does as well🤔

     

    I know that Danny Elfmann is notorious for adding harmonic distortions in his scores.  In fact, I remember watching a documentary on Youtube where he talked about how it affects the colors of the music with his orchestrator Steve Bartek.  Of course this is film music not Classical per se.   
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD

    Yes, of course the Exciter will add Harmonics, too, but it tries to do so without noticable dynamic changes. Typical "saturation", "distortion", "overdrive" effects will alter the dynamics of your signals, most of the time - and often considerably so. This will add to the precieved "fattening" of the original signal.

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
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    @jasensmith said:

    [Vienna Suite Compressor] I didn't realize the compressor does as well🤔

    It does so a soon as you activate the "FAT" button. 😉 Otherwise it's a clean, modern compression algorithm.

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • W
    W

    An extreme example of harmonic distortion is optical sound recording and noise, either on 35mm film, or even more extreme, 16mm optical tracks.  These are exemplified by the massive, tank-like Auricon 16mm Optical Sound on Film Super 1200 camera - "The Camera of Tomorrow, Here Today" (as a brochure from the 1950s I still have puts it).  This optical noise and distortion of audio is wonderfully soothing, and in fact can double as a tranquilizer for insomnia when heard alone.  
  • N
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    Wow, interesting! Thanks for the info! So bottom line, harmonic distortion is very common in all music styles... 😊
  • J
    J
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    @jasensmith said:

    [Vienna Suite Compressor] I didn't realize the compressor does as well🤔

    It does so a soon as you activate the "FAT" button. 😉 Otherwise it's a clean, modern compression algorithm.

     

    Ah... the "FAT" button. That's right💡 Thank you for the reminder. 

     

    [I was going to insert a "FAT" button joke but I'm sure you all can come up with your own😛]
  • M
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    I saw that Waves was pushing some ads online. If you're looking at Cobalt and from the responses you've received on this thread I would suggest, just from personal experience, getting the Renaissance Maxx Bundle from Waves if you haven't already. At the discount price it's at right now, I think it would be a wise choice...but, that's just my opinion. That's not free...let's move on to something that is...

    This is pulrely opinion, but something that "appears" to mimic the Waves RenEQ sound quality, that I discovered, is a free plugin with 64bit internal processing and decent dithering with what seems to be Baxandall and Gerzon approximated cuves built into the algorithms; although, they don't admit it but I recognize those curves.

    Plugin Link

    Try that plugin on strings and place two light compressors back-to-back right after it. To each of the Comp's apply only a slight threshold just to get the top of the signal and apply about a 1.8:1 compression and see if you notice anything.

    Realize, my goal is to address the thread topic in the most cost efficient way. Fortunately, free was the cheapest for now.

    Good luck.
  • N
    N

     

    Thank you Mathematics, I will check out the plugins and your suggestion. Looks cool. Concerning Cobalt, too late, I already bought it. I like the idea of controlling harmonic distortion separately from compressors and eqs.

    What I find very interesting, as I watched some interviews, top notch mastering houses will use hardware equipment for their mastering (i.e. Sterling), which probably means a good amount of harmonic distortion/excitment... 
  • M
    M

    Very cool. I might take a look at it myself.

    It's funny how you mentioned the use of hardware because I actually wrote out about a pragraph of information regarding the use of harware-based gear by studios to get that "fat" and "expensive?" sound but I deleted it because it mentioned equipment that costs as much as a small down payment on a house near the city. I know that it can modeled by algorithms to a certain point by with good precision by use of 64bit floating point processing, especially for the quiet paages (low db). In short, plugins that model analog harware and that actually sound good...cost more than others that don't.

    Whatever your research is, I like it because you're addressing the elements that "ITB" people want without spending thousands on studio equipment. Even, then...it's not one piece of gear, it's a chain of equipment plus the experience of and understanding of how it all works together.g that really jumps out at you. I'd like to know. PMkk

    I like the sound of live recorded orchestra which has been processed by analog gear. For me...that is my goal while mixing ITB. Ultimately, that is just the icing on the cake...there is no substitute for a great performance. Let me know if you find somethinng that really jumps out at you. I'd like to know what it is.
  • J
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    @jasensmith said:

    I know that Danny Elfmann is notorious for adding harmonic distortions in his scores.  In fact, I remember watching a documentary on Youtube where he talked about how it affects the colors of the music with his orchestrator Steve Bartek.  Of course this is film music not Classical per se.   

     

    After recently revisiting that particular documentary it turns out that I was mistaken.  Danny Elfman experiments extensively with dissonance in his scores not necessarily "harmaonic distortions" sorry for the confussion. 
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD

    Even if you misunderstood that specific video - most of the successful scoring mixers would happily admit that they use lots of different flavours of saturation, harmonic distortion etc. for their orchestral mixes. :-)

    Alan Meyerson (who mixes most - if not all - of Hans Zimmer's scores, for example) coined the memorable phrase "I'm a big 'fuzzer'!" when I had the chance to join him in the studio about a year ago. Brad Haenel (who mixes for Alexandre Desplat, John Powell and many, many others) made similar remarks when he visited us in Vienna early this year. 

    And to back up my statement that this is not just a recent trend: One of my teachers at the University of Vienna, Tonmeister Prof. Helmut Gottwald (1938-2004), a man who did countless legendary orchestra recordings between the 1960ies and 1990ies insisted that "Distortion is your friend!". :-)

    Kind regards,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • N
    N

    Nice!! Well, I bought the harmonic distortion Waves Saphira Plugin, and I am loving it -- it's awesome... Especially on VSL! The missing puzzle in my mix. I like it as it gives you great control on harmonic distortion as a separate feature.

    Mathematics, yes, hardware can have a great sound, but costs a fortune unfortunately... Software is the way to go for me. I have plugins from Waves, Flux (their suite), Ozone 6 Pro and many more.  I'll let you know if I find something great sounding. So far, I like this Saphira from Waves.

    Ever since I switched to Orcherstal music, I try to minimize my usage of plugins -- compared to my trance music days, I was using everything possible...