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One problem I have had with VSL brass is that the transitions to the higher dynamics are usually VERY sudden. Since brass change their timbre much more during a crescendo or a diminuendo than, say, strings, it sounds pretty unrealistic. Is there any way to make the crossfade more gradual in VIPro?
Thanks in advance,
Alan Belkin
The complaint about "VSL brass" (as opposed to other libraries?) is misplaced - because you are dealing with BRASS in general. With brass the dynamic range is extreme and noticeable, far more so than say, flute. You hear "brassiness" far more than with any other instrument. So this basic question depends on the particular brass you are talking about. The horns a8? There are just a few velocity layers on legato. Horns a4? The solo trumpet, horn, trombone - there are more velocity layers. The ensemble trumpets, 6 players ensemble? 3 players? sustain vs. legato. vs. staccato vs. portato? etc. - it all depends on what you want to do. So you have to be more specific about exactly what you are having trouble with. There is no general problem with dynamics in the brass. Also, all of the libraries have dynamic samples which allow crescendo and dim. to various dynamics, in multiple velocities. So that supplements the already existing velocity layers on sustain, staccato, portato, legato. On solos one often ends up using dynamic samples, but on ensembles the velocity crossfades are so good that it is usually not necessary to use the dynamic samples except in sforzando which is often more convenient in a characteristic style like accented notes.
Hi,
What do you think about the multitude of recorded dynamics samples with the brass instruments in the bigger collections Full Libraries?
It really pays off to use those. Another tip is to use the dynamic Performance Repetition samples to access more dynamic stages for short notes.
Best,
Paul
The problem is not with big crescendos or repeated notes; as Paul mentioned, these are well covered in the libraries. Where I have not found an adequate solution is in melodies with long notes. A real player will always produce small changes of timbre, like a little swell. But it has to be subtle. When I use a midi cc to sculpt the note, I need a barely audible change, and that's what I can't do. Either it's too stable, like an organ, or else the change is too dramatic.
Please note that I was not criticizing all VSL libraries, that would be silly, since my big VSL collection is the foundation of my work! :-)
Btw the subtle timbre change I am discussing in brass instruments does exist in some other libraries, so it is certainly doable. I'd much rather be able to do it in VSL than to have to use EW, which is what I now have to do for those kinds of melodic situations, since their PLAY software is so awful!
The problem is not with big crescendos or repeated notes; as Paul mentioned, these are well covered in the libraries. Where I have not found an adequate solution is in melodies with long notes. A real player will always produce small changes of timbre, like a little swell. But it has to be subtle. When I use a midi cc to sculpt the note, I need a barely audible change, and that's what I can't do. Either it's too stable, like an organ, or else the change is too dramatic.
If you have the extended libraries I find the 1.5 sec pfp patch in the lowest velocity useful for this. Also with Brass I tend to use the Expression fader in conjuction with velocity X fade much more frequently. If you are having problems with BLARING BRASS🎵😐 tap the filter down a wee bit.
If you have the extended libraries I find the 1.5 sec pfp patch in the lowest velocity useful for this. Also with Brass I tend to use the Expression fader in conjuction with velocity X fade much more frequently. If you are having problems with BLARING BRASS🎵😐 tap the filter down a wee bit.
I hadn't thought of that. I just tried using the higher velocities and playing with the filter, and it's much better! Thanks! 😊
Such a great forum! 😊
Hi,
What do you think about the multitude of recorded dynamics samples with the brass instruments in the bigger collections Full Libraries?
It really pays off to use those. Another tip is to use the dynamic Performance Repetition samples to access more dynamic stages for short notes.
Best,
Paul
I think the Bb trumpet standard library is absolutely outstanding. I did not see it in the full library offering when I ordered, but this instrument in only the standard library is exceptional.
This is because there are more velocity layers for staccato than legato in general, also legato will be attacked less forecefully than staccato. One thing that can be done is to use a third articulation that is before the legato target, such as a portato. The two notes will have a legato connection as long as they overlap, and the portato will match more closely the velocity of the staccato. Also, the second note of a legato pair naturally sounds a little softer than the first.
Thanks for your comments, William. :-)
I just checked the Trumpet in C, from Brass 1, and it has the same number of velocity layers in the staccato patch as in the perf-leg patch (if I look at the graphic in the upper right of VIPro).
Also, if, as you say, "legato will be attacked less forecefully than staccato", shouldn't the velocity mapping go the OTHER way?
Am I missing something here?
