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  • Some Percussion Instrument Questions (size and availing of mapping)

    Hi folks,

    Two questions here:

    First off, while some of the percussion instruments (specifically gongs/cymbals) are given names that describe the size of the instrument in question in inches, some are blank. What are the sizes of the the following:

    Tam-Tam A

    Standard Cymbal A and B

    China Gong

    Second Question: There are some really nice sounds available in some of the patches. However I can't seem to access a few interesting ones at presend via Sibelius:

    Any ideas as to how to expand the selection of China Gongs available. The Sibelius China Gong instrument option described in the PDF is limited to a single gong on one staff line only although the patch itself offers many more different sized instruments. 

    Any ideas as to how to avail of some of the hits in the cymbals from the Sibelius notation.

    Thanks!

    Juergen  


  • Hello Juergen!

    Tam-Tam A has a diameter of 100 cm.
    Cymbal A: 16 inch
    Cymbal B: 15 inch

    I can't tell you the exact sizes of the six China Gongs, but they go from about 15 cm to about 25 cm.

    You can trigger different China Gongs with Sibelius, if you transpose the patch up by 2, 4, 5, 7 or 9 halftones. This can be done in the Advanced View under Semitone (or under Edit/Semitone in VI Pro).

    How to trigger the various cymbal sounds of the Percussion library is explained in the "VE Percussion" manual on page 6. This manual has been installed to your Programs (or Applications) folder under VSL Sibelius Soundsets.

    Best regards,
    Andi


    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Hi Andi,

    Yet again apologies for the slow response to your post... and thanks!

    So regarding the ability to access the many different percussions sounds. I have indeed closely read the percussion document you refer to (indeed it is permanently open on my computer!). There is however only limited information regarding the different sounds... for example there is no mention in the document of how to access the dome articulation on the cymbals. Only tremolo and some of the beaters. Are these unavailable? If so can these be made available.

    Similarly, are you suggesting that i need to manual make this transposion for the china cymbals... afterall I cannot seem to modify this via a control message from within Sibelius. Therefore i am stuck with whichever sound I have chosen in the instrument. It would be great to have a more flexible way fo access all these sounds from within Sibelius.

    Overall I find the interaciton between Sibelius and VSL Percussion library to be the most disappointing of the many libraries I use. I really seem to be able to get so much out of the other libraries just using different technique commands but in contrast there is only a relatively small window of articulations that I can seem to access in the percussion library. Perhaps this is a limitiation on the side of Sibelius though it does stike that some of the interesting articulations are dispersed accross different percussion instruments rather than being integrated. It be wonderful to see this improved somewhat...

    Many thanks,

    Jurgen 


  • Hello Juergen!

    The dome (=bell) articulations of the Crash and Ride Cymbals can be triggered with the Technique Text command "bell". I admit that this isn't mentioned in the "VE Percussion" manual and will add it to the manual for the next update.

    You are writing about China Cymbals now, but I guess you are still talking about China Gongs, right? It's true that the transposition can't be changed with MIDI commands. If you want more than one China Gong in one score, I would simply add a second instrument.

    The "VE Percussion" sound set is in fact the most complex of our sound sets. It would be very laborious to integrate every single sample of every single percussion instrument in the sound set. Furthermore such a monster sound set would slow down the usage. Therefore a different approach to trigger all samples is offered at the end of the manual.

    Best regards,
    Andi


    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Hi Andi,

    Again apologies for slow response. I've now about to go into rehearsals for an opera that I have composed extensively using the fabulous VSL library. The VSL support on this forum has been first class throughout in helping resolve questions. Many thanks for this!

    I understand completely the issues surrounding the Soundset for Percussion. It is indeed a vast sound palette and I do think Sibelius is still rather limited in terms of the hit to processing speed when such large soundsets are involved. 

    All the best!

    Jurgen 


  • Hi Andi!

    I added the Tamtams & Gongs library to my collection but have some doubts concerning its use within Sibelius.

    First problem is that the Tamtams are played from the SE Vol. 1 PERCUSSION & MORE Cymbals & Gongs matrix rather that the actual Tamtams & Gongs library. I couldn´t find a way to contour this id problem throught Preferred Sounds in the Playback Configuration in Sibelius. If I choose to only use the Tamtams & Gongs I´d lose the Cymbals samples in the SE.

    Second problem is using three different Tamtam sizes in the score. I know I can setup 3 different T-ts in both VE & Sibelius and it should work. But I´d like to know if it is possible to use the most common in orchestral scores the 3 line percussion notation using Sibelius Instrument Editor. When I try to assign sounds for the note heads, Sibelius open a window so huge that it occupies the whole screen with all the sounds in VE Percussion>Cymbals>Metal. The problem is that you cannot access sounds futher than "CrashCymbals Rods ChokeLong Ring" so the tamtams sounds are somewhat "unnavailable". How can I fix that?

    Best Regards,

    Markus    


  • Hello Markus!

    In order to play the Tam tams and Gongs from the "Tamtams & Gongs full" library, please use the Sibelius sound set "VE Percussion" and the according VI presets that came with the VSL Soundset Installer. These VI presets can be loaded in the Vienna Instruments (Pro) player under PRESET/Sibelius/Percussion 1.4/- Single Instruments/Single Instruments Full/Tamtams & Gongs

    In order to use different sizes of Tam tams in one score, I would do as follows.
    - Add the Sibelius instrument "Tam-tam" to your score.
    - In the Sibelius Playback Devices menu activate Vienna Ensemble (Pro), load the "VE Percussion" sound set and use the program "Cymbals".
    - With the keyswitches C0 to A#0 you can switch between matrices (Tam tam sizes). You can add these switches as MIDI commands to your score.
    ~N12,64 (for C0)
    ~N13,64 (for C#0)
    ~N14,64 (for D0)
    ~N15,64 (for D#0)
    ~N16,64 (for E0)
    ~N17,64 (for F0)
    ~N18,64 (for F#0)
    ~N19,64 (for G0)
    ~N20,64 (for G#0)
    ~N22,64 (for A#0)

    If you want to use more than one Tam tam at the same time, I would add more Tam tam instruments to your score, to the Manual Sound Sets page and in Vienna Ensemble. It's not possible to use a three line percussion instrument in Sibelius with our Tam tams unless you do some advanced programming.

    Best regards,
    Andi


    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Hi Andi!

    The same kind of problem continues. Now the bass drum triggers the tamtam. I can only guess it occurs because they´re the only instruments without a sound id in PB config. Can´t find out what I´m missing. Can you please check the XML and viframe64 files for this configuration? (I´ll send them through email.) Thank you.

    Best regards!

    Markus 


  • Hello Markus!

    Thanks for sending us your playback configuration. I can only see what might go wrong, if I get your score file too though. Did you check out the Troubleshooting chapter of the "Optimizing Sibelius Playback" manual yet? Maybe you can find the solution to your problem there.
    http://www.vsl.co.at/en/MyDownloads/Notation_Related

    By the way. Percussive sounds without pitch also have Sound IDs. They are handled in the Drum maps section of the sound sets and don't get displayed on the Sibelius manual sound sets tab.

    Best,
    Andi


    Vienna Symphonic Library
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