Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
Forum Statistics

200,683 users have contributed to 43,206 threads and 259,115 posts.

In the past 24 hours, we have 2 new thread(s), 9 new post(s) and 76 new user(s).

  1. Home
  2. Sample Libraries
  3. Vienna Instruments Libraries (legacy)
  4. Long vs Short Articulations Delay

  • Long vs Short Articulations Delay

    J
    J

    Hi,

    Currently building Dimension Strings setup but this is related to other strings too. Let's say a violin line including legato/sustain and staccato articulations is quantized (like exported from Sibelius i.e.).

    I'm using Cubase expression maps to switch articulations, this very handly. Long and short articulations have a very different playing delay, that's true in the real life as staccato have a faster attack, that's why players anticipate soft and smooth articulations. Even sustain are faster than legato.

    I used to edit notes position note by note to have notes in time but this is a very long process. I still searching for a way to configure some parameters so as to get a better render first. Cubase track delay is great for that but it doesn't solve the short/long articulations difference on one single track. I tested Cubase logical editor, shifting back notes smaller than eights (about 40ms for Dimension Violins Staccato). It works but it's still an additional step and it will move small slurred notes too...

    Is there a way to have such setup within VIpro ? If I don't miss anything, Slot Edit Delay is starting the sample later, I mean it's not playing it later (?) Is there some parameter which could input a delay to sample starts, which could be configured for every articulation ?

    Thanks !
  • G
    G
    last edited
    last edited

    @javajam said:

    Is there some parameter which could input a delay to sample starts, which could be configured for every articulation ?

    Yes, you can use the Delay in the Humanize area for this. After setting the delay values for your variants (if you want any), you can use MIDI controllers to automate the Delay or the Humanize fader (or if you want, both) to adjust (or completely bypass) the effect individually for all articulation changes.
  • P
    P

    I tend to work with orchestral sounds alongside Pop/Rock/Metal ones, which typically include drum kits and so leave no room for attack delays. The approach I found worked best was to have one MIDI track per instrument and input information for keyswitches, velocity, volume and filters, so that each part sounds naturally musical, and then to duplicate each MIDI track about five times. I advance the first copy by 20ms, the second by 40, third by 60 etc. I then use the cut tool in Cubase to divide the track copies up into individual notes, and mute all but one copy for each note. This means I can have, say staccato articulations brought forward by 20ms, sustains by 80, and everything else somewhere in between.

    A couple of points though: Just selecting the amount of advancement by the type of note alone is not enough. Sometimes low notes take longer to sound than higher ones, or vice versa. Loud notes obviously sound faster than quiet ones. Also positioning in musical phrases comes into it, and whether the previous and following notes are higher or lower, and perhaps a few other things. So the only way I've found is to go through each part soloed with a click track and make sure that everything sounds in time. This part of my workflow is both the most challenging and the most frustrating. I wouldn't mind so much if I could see the waveform and the transients rather than having to hear them, but of course this is just as much of an issue for smooth passages as it is for staccato ones, so that often there are few transients to view. Also, you could physically drag each copy 20ms closer to the start of the piece than the copy above it, but it works out much better using Cubase's MIDI delay/advance feature, which you already mentioned. This means you can select all the copies at once to cut them up, and generally makes it a bit neater for controller lane info.

    Pyre

    AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59Mhz Processor, 64 GB RAM, Windows 10.0.19045, Cubase 10.5.20, Sibelius 7, VEP 5.4.16181, VIP 2.4.16399, Symphonic Cube, MIR Rooms 1-5, Suite, Choir, Organ, Imperial, Solo Voices, Dimension Strings, Historic Winds, World Winds
  • J
    J

    Thank you Goran, looks like the right way ! I'll have a look and experiment this...

    Pyre, this is a very long process indeed. Track delay average value goes from -50 to -80ms here, sometimes higher or lower. I still try to minor actions and processes, doing less computer things and more music. This requires a huge amount of computer thing first indeed... BTW I always try to use as few tracks as possible. Cubase Expression Maps is a great way to achieve this.