Very Very Confused About What Products To Buy For New Setup

[fyos]

Hi Everybody

I am a very experienced musician here in the UK (35 years a pro), and also have a strong IT background, but a total newbie to VSL. I have spent the last few days going through the VSL website, looking at lots of product, videos, and also looking at videos on YouTube and generally doing as much research as possible, but I am totally confused as to which products I need or should buy for a forthcoming major project, therefore I will explain the project and what I need to achieve.

My primary DAW is Pro Tools 10.x (upgrade to 11.x under consideration) working primarily on a MAC platform, although I also have a PC on the network. Other key tools are Sibelius 7.5 and Finale 2014 (Sibelius is preferred unless a client stipulates Finale) and Soundminer v4Pro. I already have have East West Pro Composer 2, Synthology Ivory, and a number other Kontakt libraries. Computer hardware can be upgraded if necessary as this is part of a major upgrade project anyway. 

I need to mock up a full Broadway musical. I won't say which one, but in style, complexity and length it is similar and can be compared with Miss Saigon. The end result will need to sound as realistic as possible and will be used in association with a small live band, probably an 8 piece, which is likely to be a String Quintet (Vln 1, Vln 2, Viola, Cello, and Bass) plus two keyboards and Drums - this combo is not finalised yet and may change.

I will be working off full score (most of this is already done and in Sibelius). The orchestration/instruments I will need to emulate/mock up is as follows:

Reed 1: Piccolo, Flute, Alto Flute & Clarinet

Reed 2: Oboe & English Horn

Reed 3: Clarinet

Reed 4: Flute & Clarinet

Reed 5: Bassoon & Eb Contrabass Clarinet

Horn 1

Horn 2

Trumpet 1/Bb Piccolo Trumpet

Trumpet 2/Bb Piccolo Trumpet

Trombone 1 (tenor)

Trombone 2 (bass)

Keyboard 1: Principally Harp, with additional registrations for Glockenspiel, Piano, Steel Guitar, Harpsichord, Vibraphone, Tuba and Tuba or Bass Trombone.

Keyboard 2: Principally Strings with additional registrations for Marcato Strings, Fast Strings, Pizz. Strings, Trem. Strings, Double Basses, Celeste, Celeste & Vibes, Harmonium and Harp.

Percussion 1: (Mallet Instruments) - Tubaphone (or Bells), Xylophone, Timpani x2, Bells, Gran Cassa, Anvil (2 sizes), Piatti (Hand Cymbals), Small Triangle & Even Smaller Triangle.

Percussion 2: (Kit) - Snare Drum, Bass Drum, Wood Blocks (high and low), Cow Bells (high and low), Bell Tree, Xylophone, Triangles (2 sizes), Tam-Tam, Suspended Cymbals – Crash, Splash, Hi-Hat and Hand.

String Section: Violin 1, Violin 2, Viola, Cello, Double Bass.

Some of the Percussion instruments can of course come from other libraries if necessary (I have read excellent reviews about several VSL mallet instruments), but I would like to undertake the bulk of the work using VSL. I do find the VSL product range very, very confusing for a new starter, what to buy, what not to buy and initially invest in and there is clearly some overlap between some products, and need to ensure that I can achieve the above to the very best possible results, and then expand, in due course as required should other specialised instruments be required for other projects.

Thanks in anticipation. Any comments, views, advice very welcome.

//Tim aka fyos

[fyos]

I don't know what has happened to all my paragraph formatting in the above post, which made the post very much easier to read. Clearly I have done something wrong, my first post - apologies.

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[Paul]

Hello Tim,

I took the liberty to format your post.

The best way to get started with our products is to get the Special Editions, available in various combinations and bundles.

If your budget allows it, you should get the the SE Complete Bundle.

This will provide you with most of our instruments (excluded are Dimension Brass and Dimension Strings, as well as some other instruments that were finished after the bundle was released, like Recorders), with the most essential articulations.

From the Special Editions, you can upgrade to the bigger VI Collections anytime, your registered products will be taken into account.So you can "specialize" wherever you feel it´s necessary.

You are mentioning that you are working with a network, so Vienna Ensemble PRO will be a helpful addition.

And our advanced sample player, Vienna Instruments PRO, also adds to the realism.

You´ll find all our tutorial videos here, also about the integration with Sibelius.

You said you are working on a Mac, could you give us a few more details (CPU, year, RAM, harddrives...)? How about the PC?

Best,

Paul

[Vlzmusic]

Greetings fyos!

I would have the nerve, and take the liberty to say, that for the results you want to get, plus your background and competence - I would go all the way with the full instruments. Tough on your wallet, but sparkling on the audio outputs:

There is a sale for the extended portions of the libraries going on now, so I would guess Woodwinds, Percussion, and Dimension strings (which I really suggest above all the other strings options) would benefit from purchasing full libraries. If you would still lack some special Woodwinds instrument, it can be separately purchased in individual instruments variation.

Dimension Brass - as well, the preferable option for ensemble sound - though I would add Trumpet Bb Soloist for some "virtuoso" lines here and there, and of course there is solo Piccolo Trumpet available thru the individual instruments as well.

You mention solo strings - that`s a tough one. You see, basically, Dimension strings can provide some. If their parts are 80% chordal - Dimension could handle it quite nice actually. But there is dedicated Solo Strings library, which is tempting, sparkling in its qualities - but the question is, would their "soloistic" presence in the score worth the additional cost.

In the software department I would strongly suggest upgrade to VI Pro player, as your dimension ensembles would greatly benefit from it, and pick one of the Mirx extensions (I suggest Teldex) so all of them would neatly fit in one room, get some pre-eq and natural volume balance withing the orchestra.

P.S. Please note my sincere intentions, and note that I have all the stuff I mentioned above, so its first hand experience.

[fyos]

Hello Paul,

Many thanks for a very quick reply, and for formatting my original post, not sure why none of this appeared, as the original post was well laid out and easy to read.

Thank you for starting to point me in the right direction for the product range. My budget will certainly allow for SE Complete Bundle, so I will start to look into this in depth as a starting point, and will also explore Vienna Ensemble Pro and Vienna Instruments Pro. With regards to H/W platforms here goes.

At the moment I am using a MacBookPro Mid 2010, 2.66 GHz Intel with 8GB Ram, running OS 10.8.5 with external 24 inch monitor but this is certainly due to be retired and another MAC platform secured. I am considering buying a secondhand late 2012 (or later) Mac Pro with say 24 Gb of RAM (with multiple monitors) but am open to all suggestions, nothing has been finalised yet - clearly as part of this project there is going to be a significant H/W upgrade involved whatever and SSD drives may also be implemented.

The PC was custom built in 2009 and is an Intel Core 2 Quad CPU Q9550 2.83 GHz, 4 MB Ram at the moment (easy to increase significantly), running Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 2. The machine currently has two 1 TB SATA drives, with plenty of room for further internal drives, and is housed in a high end CoolerMaster Tower. Frankly, it is almost empty, used for a couple of PC applications only and for some data backup

In addition, there is a D Link DNS 323 NAS which currently has 2 x 1.5 TB drives in it.

Going further, I also currently have 4 X Western Digital Firewire Drives each being 2 TB, and also 3TB Western Digitial "My Cloud" Drive Finally, there is a Netgear ProSafe 16 Port 1 GB switch.

I also have three very old PCs sitting in store, long retired, a Compaq Proliant ML 330 and a Dell Optiflex GX 115, plus a 2006 Mesh machine, not sure the spec but world have been very top of the range at its time.

Many thanks //Tim

[fyos]

Hi Vizmusic

Thanks for your reply, and I will certainly take your suggestions on board. Things are starting to become a little bit clear now.

//Tim - aka fyos

[Dietz]

@fyos said:

Many thanks for a very quick reply, and for formatting my original post, not sure why none of this appeared, as the original post was well laid out and easy to read

Hi Tim,

Our forum engine is known to be a bit - uhm - "peculiar" when it comes to the default settings for a new user. [<:o)]  Please apply the following changes to your VSL User Profile:

HTH,

[noldar12]

From past experience SE 1, 1 Plus, 2 and 2 Plus, will fit comfortably within 8 gigs of Ram.  Those libraries will also run quite decently on a Q9550 processor on Vista (actually my old configuration).

That being said, to get into the full libraries, and particularly something like MIR Pro or MIR 24 will require a major computer upgrade.  Generally, for the full libraries 32 gigs of Ram would be helpful, and an i7 4930 (replacement to be released shortly) optimal.  You could still get quite far with one of the new i7 quad cores though.

Especially if you go with the SE libraries, consider getting VI Pro 2 once you become familiar with the basic VI.  The stretching function will allow the creation of all sorts of alternate articulations, and you could add to the limited articulations in SE.  Nevertheless, if you can afford the full libraries (standard + extended), in the long run, that is, IMO, the better way to go.

[fyos]

Many thanks to all those who have assisted me over the last few days. Your advice and comments have been very useful, and I now clearly understand the product range, upgrade options, and am comfortable navigationg across the web site.

Over the next few days, I will finalize my strategy (which includes hardware renewal and upgrades) and then buy various VSL products.

Cheers

Tim aka fyos

[mschmitt]

Hi Tim,

I agree with Vlzmusic's advice. For your needs I would skip the SE and go right to the full instruments/libraries with the extended versions. SE is good for those on a budget and/or for making descent mock ups, but after a while the number of articulations becomes limiting. I haven't tried this out yet, but apparently you can try out Volume 1 & 2 of the SE online http://www.vsl.co.at/en/211/261/2064/2067/2225/1900.htm

One idea is that you could buy a single instrument right now http://www.vsl.co.at/en/211/496/802/951.vsl to learn Vienna Instruments (the sample playback engine) while you make your purchase descisions. You will need a Vienna Key USB dongle or other eLicenser in order to play them. Once you have an instrument you can also demo VI Pro, VE Pro, and the different versions of MIR (you would want either MIR Pro or MIR 24)

You probably already have a very good collection of plug ins, so you may not need the Vienna Suite http://www.vsl.co.at/en/211/497/1686/454/1681/1096.htm#Compressor You'll be able to demo if as well, and I think it's worth looking at because it has eq and compressor settings for every VSL instrument.

Best wishes on your project, it sounds really exciting!

Michael

[fyos]

Thanks Michael - your idea of buying a single instrument seems a good idea. I spent an hour this morning testing out SE on  http://www.try-sound.com/ which worked fine for evaluation purposes and was certainly a worthwhile initial exercise.

Many Thanks

Tim