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    @andyjh said:

    music which often has vocals (lyrical solo - not choir),  and so a solo instrument that holds  a long note needs some form of modulation to balance the tonal character of the voice

    That is not true at all.  Non vibrato on a long note could perfectly balance a vocal solo   and in fact could be better as a contrast to the vibrato of the voice.


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    @andyjh said:

    What is the historic reason for clarinets not using vibrato in classical music?


    Historically, vibrato is used to even out the effect of being slightly off-pitch or having tonal flaws or anomalies.  In classical music from the Baroque to Classical eras it was less common to use vibrato and more common to just have good enough tone and pitch to have no need for it.  Here's an interesting (and very strong) opinion from a clarinetist: "As a musician with a European background, I play without vibration. But at times I hear--or feel--a few seconds of vibration as I play. This happens in romantic music, where the expression of a delicate phrase in a love scene takes my mind off other matters. This vibration, however, is entirely different. It is natural and comes from my heart and soul. It disappears as mysteriously as it came."


    And a quote from Michael Rusinek of the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra: "[My teacher's] feeling about vibrato was that too often, players use vibrato to cover up flaws in their tone," Rusinek says. "So if you have a beautiful tone, it doesn't need vibrato; it's like putting ketchup on a really good steak."  The same article from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette mentions that vibrato throughout the whole orchestra was uncommon until the 20th century and points out that clarinets and french horns both kept up the tradition of not using any vibrato for some reason, despite the fact that the rest of the orchestra began to use it.  I think vibrato is more popularized by film music and pop/jazz than any classical music, including Romantic.  But vibrato in general has never been used as liberally as it is in film music.  Even in today's orchestral music, listen to the music of Arvo Part and the choral music of Eric Whitacre and John Tavener.  Vibrato is nearly absent in so much of it.


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    @Casiquire said:

    But at times I hear--or feel--a few seconds of vibration as I play. This happens in romantic music, where the expression of a delicate phrase in a love scene takes my mind off other matters. This vibration, however, is entirely different. It is natural and comes from my heart and soul. It disappears as mysteriously as it came."

    Now that is exactly what I was looking for,  now there is a challange for VSL to capture that sound.....


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    @Casiquire said:

    But at times I hear--or feel--a few seconds of vibration as I play. This happens in romantic music, where the expression of a delicate phrase in a love scene takes my mind off other matters. This vibration, however, is entirely different. It is natural and comes from my heart and soul. It disappears as mysteriously as it came."

    Now that is exactly what I was looking for,  now there is a challange for VSL to capture that sound.....

    I think some of the samples already have that. However, I'll see if I can come up with a way to fake it, just a as challenge.  [:P]

    DG


  • For this clarinet Bb demo Guy Bacos added some nice subtle vibrato.

    http://www.vsl.co.at/Player2.aspx?Lang=1&DemoID=6006

    And there are also some LFO vibrato presets inside the Humanise settings. (Folder 10 FX)

    where the amplitule amount can be controlled with the humanise sliders. And of course it's also possible to design customised LFO vibrato curves there.

    best

    Herb


  • It is obvious there are many different practices from various times and places concerning vibrato, for example the lack of vibrato in string instruments in the Baroque era.  Or the oboe in Germany/Austria being played with little or no vibrato compared to other countries.  Performance practice varies enormously so you can always find something you like or dislike. 

    My only point was it is wrong to say you must have vibrato to write an expressive woodwind solo!  Expression comes mainly from phrasing and legato and only in some cases the modulation of vibrato. 

    Another example is singers.  One of the worst and LEAST expressive kinds of singing you will ever hear is a bad opera singer who uses too much vibrato.  As if he is standing on a paint shaker.  And one of the most wonderfully expressive kinds of vocal timbre is a boys choir, with no vibrato at all.


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    @herb said:

    For this clarinet Bb demo Guy Bacos added some nice subtle vibrato.

    http://www.vsl.co.at/Player2.aspx?Lang=1&DemoID=6006

    And there are also some LFO vibrato presets inside the Humanise settings. (Folder 10 FX)

    where the amplitule amount can be controlled with the humanise sliders. And of course it's also possible to design customised LFO vibrato curves there.

    best

    Herb

    I'd forgotten that. Thanks Herb for getting me off the hook....!

    DG


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    @andyjh said:

    Now that is exactly what I was looking for,  now there is a challange for VSL to capture that sound.....

    Yep, the challenge is you DO NOT want that to be sampled!  See, "canned expression" never really sounds right.  It hink Herb hit the nail on the head by bringing up the humanization function where this wouldn't be sampled but you'd still get the effect of it, fully controllable and automatable.  VSL went the right way by not trying to sample things like that, in my opinion.  However that quote was not referring to vibrato so it still makes sense that the clarinets are vibrato-free.


  •  Thanks for that Herb,  that will do it.   It was only on the  long notes I wanted it,  so used sparingly this will be good

    thanks  - Andy 


  •  Thanks Herb,

    This trick is good!

    I have made an arrangement for a song about a month ago, and the intro of the piece was piano and clarinet.

    To me, it sounded really nice.

    Then the guy I made the arrangement for came up to me and said: " the music is really nice but we'll have to hire a clarinetist to play it.

    We had a discussion and I finally understood that he could'nt conceive a clarinet without vibrato even if the overall sound was really good.

    He had almost never listened to classical clarinet playing.

    It is funny how our expectations comes from what we are used to hear.

    It is so important to listen to a lot of good music to develop a good ear.

    Jean Roy


  • Hmm, I can not hear any artificial LFO Vibrato - Even with headphones ...