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  4. Max number of total V-Frames possible
  • M
    M

    There should be no limits to the number of Istances you can run, but if I may ask, why on earth do you want/need one instance per instrument? It sounds like it would make for a rather inefficient workflow.

    The number of tracks you can stream over network depends on your available network bandwidth and your host's capability. One stereo track at 44.1kHz uses 2*32*44100/8 = 344.5kB per second. With some protocol overhead you could say roughly 400kB/sec. If your computers and network interfaces are capable of say, 80MB/sec, that would translate to 204 tracks. But that is really pushing the limits...
  • G
    G

    Hi Martin,

    The reason is simple: In Logic Pro, it is easiest to do level balancing, track based automation, etc, if you have a single track per part. As you know, Dave and I are trying to find the easiest way to do complex mockups. Using a Midi multi and then a single instance of VEPro to trigger a remote multitimberal instrument makes for a very messy way to do things.

    1 track = one sound only, makes for easier eq, levels, reverbs, etc.

    So it seems that, in our case, after some experimenting, using a single sound in a single v-frame does this. Hence my question: how many V-Frames can one setup in an instance of VEPro server 64? I have discovered that we start to crash at 32 instanes of an unloaded instance of play. I was able to load 40 instances of V-Frames with nothing in them (no VST instrument of any kind) but when I tried to reload it, it would only crash.

    The awesome thing about VEPro in the case of Logic Pro, is that it actually spreads the load required to instanciate and work with many instances of VEPro over all availabe cores, FINALLY letting us use Logic as a VEPro host, and then an internal server on the Mac allows us to actually USE the power of a 12 core Mac Pro. We LOVE this.

    Now if we could only get say 90 V-Frames going to go to our slave computer (or more actually, the thing has 48GB ram, as does the Mac Pro).

    Does that make sense now?

    George Leger III

    with David Newman
  • A
    A

    Let me be sure I understand, George:

    On my PC slave in VE Pro I have 7 instances for HS (2), HB (2), and HOW (3). Each one has about 15 -16 articulations. So for a similar palette, you and David would like to use 120 VE Pro plug-ins in Logic to connect to 120 VE Pro instances?

    And then I have VE Pro with 5 instances on my Mac for Kontakt stuff, adding another 70.

    I think that proposed cure is worse than the disease :)
  • G
    G

    Hi Jay,

    in your example, we would be using 7, since each instrument, while having multiple articulations, is a single instance. Simple.

    The thing is, working in the traditional way sucks.

    We have a midi multi triggering an instance of VEPro that goes to a slave run on a remote computer that triggers a second VI that has multiple outputs that are sent back to Logic on multiple audio channels... it a huge mess, and it's impossible to gain stage and mix in any kind of a logical way. You can only use region based automation.

    If a way could be devised where we have 1 channel in Logic that does midi and automation (1 on 1) rather than 16 (your midi multi) plus 1 (and all the cabling in Logic we have to do to make this work) and then the returns in Logic, PLUS the setup in VEPro server (huge mixers and I/O setups.

    So PLEASE tell me a simpler way, if you can figure it out.

    George
  • A
    A

    Still trying to crunch the numbers, George. 

    So in my case on my PC I have one for vlns 1 & 2 & vlas; one for cellos and basses; one for trumpets and french horns; one for trombomes & tuba; one for Piccolo, flute, and alto flute; one for oboe, clarinet, and english horn; one for bassoon, contra bassoon and bass clarinet, total of 7.

    So this would be 18 for you? And then I have a similar amount on the Mac. So let's say 36 or even 40.

    I would think that is doable. But to your larger point, yes, it is a complicated workflow bewtween software instruments, MIDI tracks, and auxes.
  • J
    J
    Hi As of v9.1.7 of Logic, it is possible to record MIDI directly to the Aux channels of Multi-timbral/multi-output instruments. With, for example, 1 Instrument channel (VEP) and (say) 15 Aux channels for the separate outs as Arrange tracks, you have full MIDI and Track-Based automation. There is no further need for Multi-Instrument (MIDI) objects etc. (Unless I am misunderstanding the issue?) HTH
  • A
    A

    But then you will need more auxes so you are only trading multi-timbral for multi output and in Logic, software instruments auxes do not spread throughout the cores.
  • G
    G

    Yes Jay, 18....
  • G
    G

    That's right, you still end up with more than a 1 midi channel triggers 1 instrument and comes back on 1 audo instrument channel
  • M
    M

    I wouldn't want to work with 90 instances inside of one VEPro Server. VEPro was never intended to be operated this way. Perhaps you are better off using 16 MIDI channels per VEPro instance, then spending some time with VEP automation, mapping the relevant parameters?

    In any case, VEPro should not crash when opening projects, even when instance counts are insane. I just tried 60 empty instances here, saves and loads just fine. If you have a crash report for me to look at, please send it to support@vsl.co.at.

    It is unfortunate that Logic still has this issue with Aux tracks and core-spreading. Hopefully they can address this issue, because it apparently causes some pretty wild workarounds...
  • J
    J
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    @georgelegeriii said:

    That's right, you still end up with more than a 1 midi channel triggers 1 instrument and comes back on 1 audo instrument channel

    You end up with 1 Instrument track, plus however many Aux (multi-timbral) tracks as you need for the multi-timbral/multi-out VEP. For example, with Omnisphere in 8 way multi-timbral, each assigned to a separate (multi) out in VEP, you end up with 8 tracks in Logic (1 Instrument plus 7 Aux): the same number as you would running 8 separate instances of Omnisphere. Further, you can use Track-Based Automation directly on the Aux, or to VEP (or indeed directly to Omnisphere itself on VEP) via the 'main' Instrument track. @JayAsher Surely, if one is running a multi-timbral instance of a plugin using VEP on a Slave computer, there would only be a cpu hit on the Logic side if you were running high cpu Insert plugins on those aux channels? If all the basic processing is being handled by VEP, which does spread the load over cores better than Logic, you get better cpu distribution, even when running VEP on the same computer. Again, unless I am misunderstanding the issues involved here? JM
  • A
    A

    With  a whole bunch of multi-output VE Pro instances with multiple auxes, ats ome point you will still hit a wall. Why is 7 aux tracks better than 16 MIDI trarcks for automating 16 MIDI channels?You have to double up if you want to see discrete cc11 for MIDI Ch, 1, 2, etc. ?

    What am I Missing here?
  • A
    A

    Geroge may be on to something here. More VE Pro projects within an m-frame and my friend Peter Schwartz's SkiSwitcher envrionment object may be a good way to go for us Logic guys. I am experimenting and liking what I am seeing so far.

    http://www.peterschwartzmusic.com/skiswitcher.html
  • J
    J
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    @Ashermusic said:

    With  a whole bunch of multi-output VE Pro instances with multiple auxes, ats ome point you will still hit a wall. Why is 7 aux tracks better than 16 MIDI trarcks for automating 16 MIDI channels?You have to double up if you want to see discrete cc11 for MIDI Ch, 1, 2, etc. ?

    What am I Missing here?

    Hi If I understand the OP correctly, he is using the 'old-school' MIDI Multi-Instrument object cabled up to an Instrument channel in the Environment, (with MIDI tracks in the Arrange, possibly with additional Aux channels to work around the 'old' Logic way of doing things), or using "Multi-timbral" Instrument tracks and additional Aux tracks for the Outputs ("doubling up")? I think you may be missing this... http://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=93461 http://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=87433 You don't have to "double up", and you are not working with "MIDI tracks". You are really working with Instrument tracks and Aux channels that act as 'secondary' Instrument tracks.You can do "discrete CC11" for the Aux tracks, just as you would for regular Instrument tracks. Again, unless I am similarly missing something? JM
  • A
    A

    Yes but you cannot SEE them discretely with 7 auxes vs 16 MII channels. It is simply math.
  • J
    J
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    @Ashermusic said:

    Yes but you cannot SEE them discretely with 7 auxes vs 16 MII channels. It is simply math.

    Hi My example was with Omnisphere: 8 tracks (1 Instrument plus 7 Aux), your example is 16 MIDI channels: 16 tracks (in my case 1 Instrument plus 15 Aux=16) Clearly, we are at odds over this, as I cannot deciper what it is that you cannot SEE discretely (and maths are not my strongpoint). Oh well. JM
  • G
    G

    Hi Martin,

    Yea, we really wish Logic would do some work around how it uses cores and other things. I know Apple has said they are working on Logic X, but I have to admit I'm loosing faith that thy really are, or if it does come one day, what it will and will not be...

    George
  • A
    A

    This is working out great so far! 18 v-frames on my PC and 18 on my Mac, 1 Logic track for each instrument (thanks to the SkiSwitcher) running at about 20% CPU.

    How do you attach pics in this forum? I don't see an icon.
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
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    @Ashermusic said:

    (...) How do you attach pics in this forum? I don't see an icon.

    Use a free image hosting server like http://postimage.org/ to upload and paste the direct link (or the thumbnail) into your message.

    HTH,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • A
    A

    Wow, this is the only forum I am on where you cannot do so directly.