Vienna Ensemble Standard vs. Pro With Regard To VST3 And Max Channel Capability

[DaddyO]

Am I correct that only the Pro version of Vienna Ensemble supports exceeding the 16 MIDI channels per instance with VST3, and the Standard version does not do so? I'm hoping the answer is no, but I expect it is yes.

I finally was able to make the switch from Sonar to Cubase, which of course supports Steinberg's VST3. To this point I have been using one instance of VE Standard for each basic instrument family (Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Percussion, Melodic Percussion), but if the number of instruments exceeds 16 I then have to create another instance of VE Standard (for example Section Strings, Solo Strings, and if I had them, Chamber Strings or Appassionata Strings). I'm hoping with Cubase to be able to break through this barrier and have all Strings on one instance.

[Gusfmm]

 I just consolidated my template that way (sounds like a lending company commercial)... http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/34384/217227.aspx#217227

The VST3 version will allow you to define the number of MIDI ports you may need. Each port enabling you to access 16 MIDI channels. E.g. a setting of 8 MIDI ports will give you (8x16) 128 channels you can access in Cubase.

[DaddyO]

Thanks for the response. Gusfmm. Any idea whether this capability is limited to the Pro version or also exists in the Standard version? I know there's a nice special going on with the Vienna Suite and VE Pro right now, but taking advantage of it would be extremely difficult for family finances right now.

[Gusfmm]

 Not sure. I use VEP. But I'm sure the product manual will clarify that.

[Gusfmm]

 Pg. 13 reads:

"Each Vienna Ensemble instance offers up to 32 MIDI ports with 16 MIDI channels each (= 512 MIDI channels)".....

[DaddyO]

Yeah, I'm trying to work out what that means. Are the MIDI ports the NET1/NET2, NET3/NET4, etc? Or something else?

If for example I set up an instance of VE Standard that includes, say 20 channels, might I then set up 16 of them to route to a bus outputting to NET1/NET2, then set up the other 4 to a different bus outputting to NET3/NET4? If so, then how would that work sending the output for both busses to my audio track? Would I sum them in a Master Bus in VE? Or somehow distinguish them in the input selection in audio tracks in my DAW?

I get the concept but not yet how to execute it in order to test it. Thanks so much for your help.

[Gusfmm]

 You are mixing different things. MIDI and Audio.

Your MIDI channels output can be routed to any bus or available audio output in your system.

MIDI ports have nothing to do with the NET1/NET2 etc. you're mentioning. Those are audio outputs.

Without meaning to sound rude: your best bet is to check the manual. Pg. 13.

[DaddyO]

Not rude at all. The MIDI/audio port distinction you mention was precisely what was confusing me. I had no idea where in VE to select different MIDI ports. I had read page 13 before, but hadn't seen what I needed until I managed to zoom a graphic at the bottom of the page that showed where to make the selection. I think I can take it from here. Thanks so much!

[DaddyO]

OK, thanks to the help provided by Gusfmm I am able to assigned VE channels to different MIDI ports.However, that's just one side of the equation. I now have to figure out how in Cubase to match a MIDI track output to the appropriate MIDI port in VE.

I'm a former Sonar user who switched to Cubase this week, and for some unknown reason the Cubase forum is showing me as not allowed to post. While I'm trying to straighten that out, maybe there's a Cubase user here who can explain to me how to set up different VE MIDI ports to be accessible to my MIDI tracks. Right now if I look at my MIDI Track output options, all I get are my instances of VE, nothing to do with different MIDI ports within a VE instance.

[Gusfmm]

@Another User said:

Cubase to match a MIDI track output to the appropriate MIDI port in VE.

Since we're at it...

1) Very first thing: Open the VE server. Add your viframe.

2) Open Cubase, load your project.

3) Open the VST Instruments window (option in one of the menus). Insert a VE plug-in instance. (if you have no idea what I'm talking about >>> Cubase manual). Close the VST Instrument window.

4) Track list, insert (create) a new MIDI track (or use the one Cubase probably asked you to create by default when you added VE).

5) On the Track Inspector, first section within the MIDI track contains all the basic set-up config. Assign the MIDI port there (just click around if you don't know how until you see the VE ports pop up), and MIDI channel. Voila.

[DaddyO]

Nice to have a fellow-traveller in the DAW world. I was a Cakewalk user since way back in Pro Audio 6 and even before, but I always felt like I was fighting the program. I'm sure it was a much me as any flaw in Pro Audio/Sonar. It just seemed like a lot of things were needlessly difficult. Anyway, the superior Score View and the special handling of articulation switching available in Cubase had great appeal to me, even seemingly small things like track subfolders and easier work in drawing and editing controllers. My initial work in Cubase has only confirmed what my instincts and the Trial Version told me. Cubase is just a better-conceived product for someone like me who works exclusively with MIDI orchestration.

Regarding the MIDI track output selection, I have a Strings instance of VE Standard set up and loaded. Since all the channels were set to MIDI input "All" (that's how I have been working to this point), I changed one to port "1" and another to port "2" so I had two VE MIDI input ports ready. I do know how to select the MIDI track outputs in Cubase, but when I go there hoping to see different ports available for selection, i.e. Vienna Ensemble (instance 1 port 1, instance 1 port 2, etc, I don't see them. All I see is Vienna Ensemble (Instance 1), Vienna Ensemble (instance 2), etc. I'm wondering if there is some setup needed in Cubase that I don't know about. I've looked for it, in the manual and on the web, but I can't find anything.

[DaddyO]

FYI, I finally was able to post on the Cubase forum, and I've posed this question there as well, since at this point the Vienna part of the equation has been solved and it's a Cubase issue now.

[DaddyO]

Well so far the Cubase forum hasn't provided any definitve enlightenment. If anyone here knows:

1. Can Cubase sucessfully interact with VE Standard instances that have multiple MIDI ports, or is Pro required?

2. If it can, how do I set this up in Cubase?

Right now the only outputs available to my MIDI tracks are the VE Standard instances with no regard for separate MIDI channels. Thus if I had two channels set up in a VE Standard instance, one a horn assigned to MIDI port 1 channel 1 and the other a tuba to MIDI port 2 channel 1, my MIDI output from Cubase transmits on channel 1 and VE Standard processes it as an input for any channel assigned to MIDI channel 1. I get both horn and tuba playing.

[DG]

1. Yes
2. See jPegs

[URL=http://s1276.photobucket.com/user/Maestrodaz/media/VEPrefs_zps28159074.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0]VE Prefs[/URL]

[URL=http://s1276.photobucket.com/user/Maestrodaz/media/VEMultiplePorts_zps895aa470.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1]VE Multiple Ports[/URL]

DG

[DaddyO]

Thanks DG.

First JPEG shows something I am aware of. But the second one is interesting. I see that your MIDI out options include precisely what I am looking for. That's good news. What I need help with is HOW you got there. My MIDI track output options don't look like yours. There's something I'm missing. What do I need to do in Cubase to get multiple MIDI ports per VE instance to show up the way they do in your picture.

[DG]

If you have set the Prefs correctly (and re-started Cubase as well as VE, by clicking EXIT), when you start Cubase and load VE you should see what is shown in mine, providing that you are actually loading the VST3 version of VE.

Please can you post a jPeg of what yours looks like. I'm sure that the solution is something very simple.

DG

[DaddyO]

OK, thanks so much, I think we're getting to the rub of it. I don't see a VST3 version of Vienna Ensemble Standard. I've read the thread where a VE Pro VST3 version is described with the "III" in the name. But I don't find that in my installation of VE Standard. I installed that last summer, so I don't remember whether there was any option to install one that I might have declined, but I didn't have Cubase at the time so that might be possible. I've looked at the dll files and my two options are Vienna Ensemble (32 bit implied) and Vienna Ensemble 64.

[DaddyO]

Okay, I think I found it thanks to this thread: https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212806

I needed to look in my Plugin Information window. I found that I indeed DO have a VST3 version of Vienna Ensemble, and it gives me the filepath. Apparently back when i installed VE and I didn't have Cubase I didn't see the need to move a copy of it to the folder I user to keep the dll's for all VST plugins.

Thanks so much to all. I anticipate that my problem is solved!

[DaddyO]

Note to myself: Not so fast!

I was mistaken, what I saw was not a special Vienne Ensemble VST3 dll but a none-dll that must serve some other purpose in VST 3 communication. So I'm back to square one, but I know from the picture shared by DG that what I want to see is possible. And I'm noticing some language in the Vienna Instruments manual that refers to the accompanying installation of Vienna Ensemble as VST3 compatible and makes it sound like no special installation option is needed.

So there's still something (in Cubase 7 I suspect) that is preventing things from looking my project like it does in DG's.

[DG]

1. Have you uninstalled VE and re-installed?
2. Have you checked that the path to the VST3 version is contained in the list in plugin information (Devices menu in Cubase)?

DG