MIR Pro 24 - Sound Quality using default parameters

[duncan58]

I use MIR Pro 24 and whilst I can't say I'm unhappy with the sound I get it's still a long way from the quality that I hear on any of the demos on this site. My results always sound much muddier and a lot less crisp. I must admit, I more or less stick to the default parameters only changing the reverb length and position of the instruments, so I don't suppose I should expect too much but I was wonderng whether it is possible to achieve good results doing this. I suspect that without mastering (vienna Suite or such) the results are never going to be completely satisfactory. The trouble is, even if I bought Vienna Suite I wouldn't really know what to do with it. Does anyone have any advice on what I need to do/learn/buy to start getting better results?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[andyjh]

Without attempting to make a huge set of ideas for you to try, as there are so many things that affect what you hear, the one line tip would be to reduce the overall reverb depth (Dry/Wet Slider to a negative value). Then if that cleans up the "muddyness" then think about reducing the reverb depth on a per instrument basis rather than globally. 

I wouldn't try to adjust the reverberation time at this stage, perhaps selecting the appropriate room is more relevant. 

[Dietz]

Assuming that the orchestration itself isn't the problem, a good way to clean up a seemingly "muddy" setup within MIR Pro is to use the Room EQ. This EQ is applied to the wet signals only. Try to reduce low and mid frequencies a bit. - The MIR Pro Venue Presets include some suggestions for the creative use of the Room EQ:

->  http://dl.vsl.co.at/downloader.aspx?ID=10107

Sidenote: I think MIR Pro users will be glad to hear that there will be a dedicated Save / Load - dialog for the Room EQ in the next update. :-) 

A good way to change the sound of a single instrument are the Character Presets. In quite a few cases there are "Clean Lows"- or "Clean Mids"-settings available.

That said, I think it is always better to try different stage positions and / or rotations for the most "offending" instruments first. :-) - BTW: There are more hints like that available in MIR Pro's manual form p.55 onwards, in the "Getting 'that' sound"-section.

-> http://dl.vsl.co.at/downloader.aspx?ID=10107

Kind regards,

[duncan58]

 Thanks for the tips, Andy and Dietz, I'll definitely give those things a try. Btw, Dietz, the link you sent was for the Venue Presets. Am I right in thinking these only work for MIR Pro and not MIR Pro 24 but that Presets for MIR Pro 24 are currently being worked on?

You didn't mention anything about mastering. Does that mean it should be possible to achieve a good sound even before mastering?

Thanks again for your help

Duncan

[Dietz]

The actual Venue Presets are available for MIR Pro 24, too. They contain manually adapted "empty rooms" with no (or just a few) instruments placed on a stage. Please refer to the ReadMe-text that comes with the collection of Venue Presets.

Since a decade, "mastering" is the buzzword for a mystical process that cures all flaws in a mix. ;-) ... yes, it should be (and it is) possible to achieve a good sounding mix before mastering. Mind you - a "mix" typically includes some processing on the main bus, too, so if _this_ is what you call "mastering", then my answer should be: Yes, a master EQ, a master compressor and most likely a limiter will help.

BTW - the EQ plug-in that comes with MIR Pro can be used perfectly for these tasks, too. It is a variant of the Master EQ of Vienna Suite. ;-)

Kind regards,

[duncan58]

 Thanks very much for your reply, Dietz. And there I was, hoping to be able to excuse my bad mixing with the fact that I hadn't "mastered" the tracks yet!

[Steve Steele]

Dietz - I downloaded the latest version of the Venue Presets (2013-04-22 09:45). However, when in MIRPro24, when I select File/Open, the .viframe presets are greyed out. Can't select them. Also, there are no EQ Presets in the EQ Presets folder. I feel like I asked you this question before, maybe in an email.. But is it possible that the Venue Presets don't wok with MIRPro 24? I left a message in another thread. I'm hoping to get some starting points with microphone and EQ choices. I'm getting around MIRPro24 quite well an achieving some great sounds, but I'm not comfortable adjusting the Room EQ (trying to get a darker room sound). Thanks! Steve

[Dietz]

There are no EQ presets for MIR Pro's "built-in" Room EQ as long as you haven't saved any! ;-) ... for darkening the sound of a MIR Venue, try starting with a high shelf set to about 2.5 or 3 kHz and a very broad Q (about 0.4 or less), and reduce the gain step by step until you're in the ballpark (-3 to -6 dB will be sufficient, I guess). Then adjust the frequency to your liking. - These settings should get you started. :-)

Re: MIR Pro 24 - Like mentioned in the ReadMe that comes with the download, the Venue Presets are meant to be used with the "typical" MIR Pro / VE Pro combo only. They won't (can't!) work with the plug-in version of MIR Pro. There is no limitation regarding the use of the Venue Presets and MIR Pro 24, though. I will ask the VSL support team to look into it.

HTH,

[Steve Steele]

I'll try starting with those EQ settings. Thanks for the tips.

"Re: MIR Pro 24 - Like mentioned in the ReadMe that comes with the download, the Venue Presets are meant to be used with the "typical" MIR Pro / VE Pro combo only. They won't (can't!) work with the plug-in version of MIR Pro. There is no limitation regarding the use of the Venue Presets and MIR Pro 24, though. I will ask the VSL support team to look into it."

I'm not quite clear on this. If I read it right in the MIR manual (which shows MIR being used with VEPro), it's VEPro that imports the venue presets, not MIR?

But if there is no limitation regarding the use of Venue Presets and MIR Pro 24, does that mean it's just a matter of finding a way to open them in MIR?

Also, when I add an instance of MIR to a lib, like LASS FC or LASS LS for example, if I apply one of the instrument profiles (like Violins Sord) to LASS LS, is MIR doing anything else than setting the charecter, width, mix and volume? Or is that it? Sometimes, I'll apply a VSL instrument profile as a starting point to a non VSL lib, and go from there. Any reason not to do this?

Thanks again!

Steve

[Dietz]

@Another User said:

Also, when I add an instance of MIR to a lib, like LASS FC or LASS LS for example, if I apply one of the instrument profiles (like Violins Sord) to LASS LS, is MIR doing anything else than setting the charecter, width, mix and volume? Or is that it? Sometimes, I'll apply a VSL instrument profile as a starting point to a non VSL lib, and go from there. Any reason not to do this?

Like pointed out on p. 27 of MIR Pro's Preliminary Manual, the Instrument Profiles available for Vienna Instruments are designed for their very specific needs. Instrument Profiles take into account a lot of aspects inherent to the actual recording process of the samples used for Vienna Instruments, like the angle of the microphone with regard to the instrument(s), the stereo width of the original recording, the Directivity Profiles gathered for VSL's instruments, Natural Volume, natural timbres and possible changes to them, typical playing techniques and ways of sound production, and more.

By assigning the proper Instrument Profile, MIR "knows" a lot about the incoming signal and can handle it in a very unique way. Of course MIR Pro has no way to get the same amount of background information for other signals, like 3rd party libraries or "raw" audio data. It's highly advisable to use one of the supplied General Purpose Profiles for these signals ("Cardioid" is always a good starting-point).

While it's possible that _some_ aspects of a seemingly "fitting" Instrument Profile might indeed sound properly, it's more likely that you will get strange-sounding results in the majority of cases.

HTH,