@DG said:

There are two sides to this. Whislt a current user might be interested in seeing the way I work with VSL products (or not...!), I doubt that it would garner any more sales for VSL. However, there are enough people out there who would make a purchase, based on the fact that one of their idols uses the same product, that it makes sense to provide these sort of videos.

Having said that, I don't think it's a bad idea to ask some of the demo makers if they would like to do some tutorial videos. Obviously people like Herb have a greater knowledge of the software, but sometimes it is useful to get a real world, and real-time example from others in the profession.

DG

Yeah - if I made a video on how I use VSL or any other library - the way I do it would actually put people off. That and the swearing at the same time. Sales would drop to an all time low.

I hardly ever use more than 20 tracks in Logic Pro (and that's an epic track for me); have no real idea about how to edit; hardly ever use different articulations because I can't be bothered; the last track I did for the library was 3 tracks - a Hammond, a fretless bass and drums and I just played it all in 2 or 3 takes apart from the drum loops. Thats a really quick video.

So Daryl , Guy, Billy and the other sort of chaps that like doing classical should be the ones that do a video. 

I can do a video on Olympic Gold Medal standard bad language and how to use it to impress your mother-in-law if you like?

Nice vids! ;)

Actually, I would love to see interviews with people like Guy and William as well, on how they use VSL. 

@Carsten Altena said:

Actually, I would love to see interviews with people like Guy and William as well, on how they use VSL. 

Really? I would really like to know where Dave Newman got his desk? And how the kepyboard is held? Is it wobbly when you play it or is it a sturdy mechanism? Does it slide back under the desk when not required? Are these desks custom made? Stuff like that.

If there's one thing I hate more than anything, it's when the keyboard moves, even just a millimetre when you play it.

@PaulR said:

If there's one thing I hate more than anything, it's when the keyboard moves, even just a millimetre when you play it.

I did a recital where the stage crew forgot to engage the brakes on the piano castors. That was an experience I never want to repeat. [:(]

DG

@Dar32 said:

I just took two oxycodone. Love brittany and pink

Why doesnt vsl interview those that have proven themselves and contributors to this product like william, guy, paulR, DG, ericos, phillip, and others. I would absorb it with as much interest as newman and elfman? 

I'm game! Coffee on me this time Dietz, bring your camera (to Athens that is...)

Seriously though: Guy, Jay, Bill, DG, Philip, Servando, Goran, and all the other illustrious virtuosi of The (VSL) Matrix, can describe their sequencing workflow in detail for everyone's benefit.

I myself offer to discuss the following topics: Composition and its Workflow, Aesthetics and Individuality, Actual Listening and Discernment, Criminal Over-Doubling, Notation: Yes! It was meant for Musicians, How to Compose without Electricity (not for the fainthearted), Composition vs. Con-position (aka Organic Growth vs. Crazy Glue), The Unbearable Lightness of Being Hans, The Incalculable Difference Between Actual Composition/Orchestration Lessons at College or Privately vs. Compostition/Orkestration Online "Courses" for the Deaf/Blind, Composters or Orchestrators: Who Actually Deserves the Music Credit Today? P.T.Burnam's Circus Bluetooth-Mouse and Compostitional Techniques for the 21st Century of Great Music.

I am very interested in the PaulR classes, as I am studying Regional Variations in Obscene Folk Expressions of the British Isles. He is actually famous there for his mastery of the subject.

This thread tells. 

It offers me a chance to provide criticism that should have already appeared on this forum.

I could have purchased a new violin this winter, which I have not owned in over 15 years (today is my 35th birthday), but lucky a gentleman invested in S.E. "Essential Orchestra" & Strings (+Plus), Strings II and Epic Horns for my use. The goal is to work with the system and look to develop quality work and help color my life while I work in academic research.

A few days ago, my Pro instrument demos are complete (I am not seeking any sympathy. I was in the middle of designing arpeggios for string crossings to offer to the community based on the real playing of a violin (perhaps great and useful or perhaps ok and can be re-worked by another). We are in an era where Kickstarter and crowd sourcing are booming and talented graphic artists now have access to ALL of Adobe's products via a simple $50 or student $30/month fee... I pay for it, which is $30 dollars the company is getting versus the $0 it would be getting from me otherwise. If I stopped paying, the software would stop working as well.  

Consequently, excellent work is produced. New musicians, film makers, directors, actors, game designers and most of the arts are experiencing unprecendented level of tools for the every day musician. I purchased Animoog for $1.00 for my iOS device. I tweeted about it and could count at least 1 very influential (the co-author of Wordpress) individual purchasing the product and recommending it based on my "find" and recommendation. 

Game Development Engines are often available for free (Unity 3D, Unreal, etc.), to allow new users to practice the coding and modelling work until they are ready to publish a product and then commit to $1500 to remove the "Made with X program" screen. However, this opens up the market to many young developers with powerful equipment and out of this comes innovation and fresh ideas. The game market is booming much more than novel quartet arrangements or a big increase in students reading about orcestration to get the most real sound for a song their high school or college orchestra will eventually play. There is a lot of dubstep, loops and some great musicians pulling good music out of Garageband (which, for 5-15 dollars is quite exceptional for the student/layperson). 

I am working on a project for no cost, my first with VSL, and as my Pro versions ran out the loss of work I now have to pay to return to developing (or borrow a mac/etc) is leaving a bitter taste in my mouth. 

The discounts are helpful, but the barrier to entry for new developers/composers for music in the "classical" genre (game music, film scores, entertainment, tinkering and serious composition), is unlike any other industry. If pre-professionals had access to "rent" licenses to download Dimension Strings, The Vienna Instrument Suite and hell, access the entire library for $50.00 a month the number of new users, and some with tremendous talent and connections to generate more users, would not cost the company, but 5,000 users worldwide results in 250,000 monthly and in the event of larger projects (users with current licenses provided a benefit/ for specific licenses based on a profit limits then pro-versions will be purchased).

I am famous (why not!), but you do not know my name unless you are in psychopharmacological research circles. I am the verified Google+ account if you searched my name. My sound libraries are devalued and I am unable to afford the Pro version of even the Instrument... These arpeggios well have to wait.

I have hit the financial barrier, and I will continue my work and play around. However, I wonder how many musicians, all who listen to the demos and that have the same "awe" feeling about VSL (Wow, only "open" strings in passages!) and the excitement that will never touch the library. This is a chance to open up a huge market. Dimensions cost the same price as three months rent or a used car (even at the discount price). This is not about devaluing the cost of recording/development for the Library, but opening up revenue to users who would normally not enter into the market. You will have my $50/month forever if this was the model, but at this point I have reached the amount reasonable for the way I will use the music (which will have no damage or cost to the library). When I receive my clinical degree, I will return the favor. Just as I have for other products I respect.

 Consider a monthly fee to access samples, and you will gain so much money from amateurs making their own dreams come true and it will promote the mission of improving the appreciation of "The Symphony" to students who may just may be the next "true" celebrity (whatever that means). 

David S. Kozin 

I hope VSL is not taking this seriously, otherwise please refund me the over €5,000 I have spent on some of your products, and I will gladly pay the $50 a month rental fee for everything you have ever released, henceforth. Sure, that will happen tomorrow....

Errikos,

Would the value be more realistic if it was adjusted to $100USD/month, which would be the monthly cost of €5,000 over the period you have been a member of the message board? If you could have spent 75 Euro each month since joining, assume as a student or beginning composer to have access to the library as a whole (need open string double stops without paying three month wages) it would be equivalent in cost, and particularly if this cost was spread amoung many more users allowing an individual user, such as yourself, to access more products and encouraging development?

As I stated, individuals who purchased permanant licenses would not have to spend a monthly cost and would also have the Terms of License associated with the purchase. Opening up the product to students and other talent at a monthly cost would be contingent on terms limiting profit from music created from the product or be required to purchase the Terms to use for individuals or entities capable of making a profit. 

Most of us spent X amount on a product now valued worthless, particularly with technology/hosting or rack mounted 16MB sampled units years ago. 

The point is: If users, who are currently unable to pay the barrier to entry for the library are able to gain access to pay and use the products (with restrictions on use) the new user base could lower pricing for all individuals. 

Most users would come and go (after a few months) realizing the steep learning curve or standard string patches on Reason "are good enough," but this customer churn would be good for generating profit on a "trial" basis. Most importantly, opening up unique items to users who are not making a profit or require specialized packages to compete to increase the quality of music overall and certain skills will never be simply gained by access to VSL: there is still an art (composition... orchestration) but this would give an opportunity to more and help all users.

I wish you the best, and my point is about helping others as well as the existing members by opening the doors to the "starving artist" with talent and ideas or to make it accessable to the come and go student who does it for their passion -- the individuals not competing for work, but who would love to write music for a play or school piece or non-profit organization. If they are scoring for film/games making money, then they pay a different license. This model is followed with game engines and other areas. 

SIncerely,

David 

I've actually been a customer since 2005 if I remember right, I just didn't see the need to post until much later. In any case, your point that your new user base could lower pricing for all individuals is fine except for one thing: I have already spent the money... Refund it to me, and then let's all of us get onto this monthly program you're proposing; not just the newbies. 

Basically, you don't know how, or what a lot of us had to do to afford the money to buy the licenses to these products. You can't know whether we are starving artists or over-busy professionals just because we own these licenses. Let's just say that I feel very empathetic to the "starving artist", and if he is to have access to these libraries for $50 a month, so shall I. As far as students are concerned, they should hone their skills first with other, much cheaper and not as great, but definitely good enough products for their artistic growth. I don't see why they HAVE to have their hands on the best there is from day one. I was able to compose for open strings when I had a Kurzweil. The fact that I couldn't hear the perfect simulation didn't stunt my growth as a composer. Unless you weren't referring to composition but to mock-uping. That's different.

However, if VSL gives everybody their money back from the dawn of time and wipes the slate clean, that's fine with me; I'll enjoy the Full Package, Dimensions, VEP 5, MIR, and the Suite from tomorrow with $50 a month [H]

I hear your points. I am putting out an alternative idea, which is currently being used by Adobe and other industries, and to put it out and see if any responses would be stated on the web site. My root assumption was the response you gave.

As I stated in earlier post, I am cautious to discuss work or jobs on message boards without knowing a consensus as to not dilute the value of work individuals do because of the investment that is required. I have a huge respect for the community, the company's products and the complex industry on myriad levels. However, it should not be dogmatic and open for alternative ideas. 

I am pleased with my message of presenting an alternative view, and know that a sample library is different than Photoshop for example... it is an investment. 

Best wishes,

David

To my knowledge, Silvestri has used VSL for a very long time. I actually bought Gigastudio years ago on eBay. Turns out I bought it from Alan. :)  Not sure if it was an extra copy or if he was changing things around, but he was hella cool. He sent me promos and some software with the purchase, and he was using some VSL at the time.

That's cool! Alan seems like a very nice guy in interviews etc.

Hmm... BTW haven't checked this thread in a long time, I now read all those other replies :D