gugliel-
Did you use microtuning? Some of the background strings and winds sound a quarter-step off or so. How did you create this piece? very interesting music.
-mvanbebber

You have very good ears, mvanbebber! I did indeed tune everything, though I hope tuned it INTO tune, not OUT of tune -- but with the great labor involved it's possible that there are mis-tunings here and there. My goal was to imitate the intonation of a perfect orchestra.

The piece was written on paper, then into computer notation (Score program), then into computer sequencer (Sonar) with GigaStudio and a hardware synthesizer (Kurzweill 2600), and then tuned with programmed pitch wheel changes.

If you can point out very specific places where the tuning sounds funny, I'd very much appreciate it -- having heard it so much, it gets hard for me to hear it again fresh.

Guglielmo

Here is a replacement of the solo violin part with VSL Horizons Solo Strings (violin), just the first minute and a half:

http://mysite.verizon.net/guglielmo/romance_new_1_31.mp3

The original version (about 4 minutes of it) remains at

http://www.soundclick.com/guglielmo on the music page "Romance [First Part]" , as made with AO solo strings for the solo violin part. The orchestra strings are GOS and the ww/brass/timp a mixture of other stuff.

Guglielmo

Dear Gugliel,

This is an interesting challenge.

I hear your piece on two levels, and it depends what you actually want to do.

1) You want to produce a piece and are intentionally off-tuning it. In this case, although I find it difficult to listen to (not having grown up with microtonal music - my ears are not very sophisticated). On this level it represents an interesting and challenging listen, particularly given that the piece is written in a romantic idiom.

2) You want to produce a piece in the romantic idiom, and are intending to reproduce the finer (almost instinctive) control of pitch that good instrumentalists work into their performance, given that keyboard instruments, tuned percussion and harp are pretty much the only ones that make use of a fixed temperament. If this is what you are intending, I appreciate the attempt (in fact, people seldom even note this feature of a performance, so you are definitely in a minority), but am not certain of the results. I think you would need to be even more subtle with the nuances of this if you wanted to be successful. Taking your first phrase:

A C# E G# G# F# A D# C# B B E F# G# E G# B C# B E E F# E F#
B# C# A C# C# B A#


In this, the first two F#s seem a little flat, the first two G#s (although perhaps not quite as much as a microtone), the second B shifts pitch significantly downward from the first. The third C# on the top line seems sharp. The problem with this is that western ears (such as mine) sense that something is off, but cannot tell exactly what. I would say that I can understand your dilemma, because it is exactly the sort of thing you can get too close too after repeated listenings.

If you are going after 2) rather than 1), it would be interesting to hear a version without the intentional tuning alterations, since the piece is well-written. I hope this is of some use to you.

Hmm - the font misaligned my submission.

The two lines of notes are intended to represent the top and bottom notes of the double-stopping on the violin. The notes on the bottom should be moved further along to the right by varying amounts (if you see what I mean).

Nicks, it's exciting to find people that hear these things, and get interested in them enough to comment, too -- sometimes one writes in a vacuum despite one's years of experience. My intent is somewhere inclusive of both of your 'levels' -- both to take tuning beyond the traditional and still reflect the reality of the best orchestral tuning. Many violinists might take the G#'s very high (are you a violinist?) but I like the major 3rd between E and G# to be pure, just like the major third between the A and the C#.

A page of the score, with markings to show intonation inflexions, is now on the temporary site where the new recording is located:

http://mysite.verizon.net/guglielmo

I think this will pick up the score image directly:



Thanks for your good ears, too -- anyone else have an opinon?

Also, I think I have an older recording in equal temperament, will try to find it and post later.

Guglielmo

I can't listen to the new version because it says that I'm 'locked' out of the file. I need to have proper identification - it says. I'll try again later,
thanks,
mvanbebber

mvanbebber, the free web pages seem to allow only one user at a time -- just wait a few minutes, it should be free again. I don't understand why and how this happens or I'd fix it!

I'd like to hear this but can't unless it's a simple mp3 that I can download directly.

By the way is that score done on Music Printer Plus!!!??? I love that old program but can't use it anymore. No DOS.

You should be able to get the mp3 directly from the verizon page (new version) http://mysite.verizon.net/guglielmo/romance_new_1_31.mp3

The soundclick site also allows download of the mp3 (old version) -- but you probably have to 'register', just as for this forum.

The score is done in 'Score', the granddaddy of professional notation software. Version 4, which I use, runs in a dos window (or, as I do it, on a unix emulation window) on windows. It produces eps files for printing; the image here was reduced in a desktop publishing program to be a gif image.

Guglielmo

Wow - Score? Fascinating! I had at one time contemplated getting Score before Finale became useable by a human. I had Finale 1.0 - what a nightmare! They have improved it to say the least.

@William said:

Wow - Score? Fascinating! I had at one time contemplated getting Score before Finale became useable by a human. I had Finale 1.0 - what a nightmare! They have improved it to say the least.

I used to use Score, but traded it in in 1994 for Sibelius. I have to say that I did miss some of the "publishing" features, but there was no comparison when it came to speed and ease of use. I did try Finale, but found it so counter-intuative that I gave up after a week or so.

DG