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  4. Simulating second orchestra violins (12) - natural volume and width?

  • Simulating second orchestra violins (12) - natural volume and width?

    V
    V

    Hello everyone!

    I want to simulate orchestra violins II of 12 players and to match it with the orchestra violins I (14 players).

    The natural volume of violins 1 is -13.5 and the width is 4.04.  There are 14 violins.

    If I do a second ensemble with Orchestral Violins 1 (with the semitone and pitch bend tricks),  what value for the natural volume and width should I put?  I want to simulate an ensemble of 12 violins...

    Thank you very much for your help!

    Vincent
  • V
    V

    And if I want to simulate 16 violins with the 14,  what values should I put?

    Thanks again!
  • V
    V

    The real question is in fact : how the number of players of a same instrument affect the width and natural volume for the ensemble?

    Is there a mathematic formula to do? It would be easy then to add players and have good proportions in width and volume.  

    The only problem that would remain is the timbre.  Going to 16 players from 14 players sample,  what would be the best effect to achieve this?  Tone change?

    Would the technique of the semitone be sufficient to create a little more fuzz and simulate 2 more players?
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hello Vincent, 

    As no one is answering your questions, I´ll just state that it is very hard, at least for me, to reliably distinguish 12 from 14 players. 

    If you can hear the difference, I´d say: Let your ears decide and choose the values that sound right to you. 

    Best, 

    Paul

    Paul Kopf Head of Product Marketing, Social Media and Support
  • D
    D

    I agree with Paul. You are over thinking this. After all, we're not even talking about a live section. We're talking about a series of static notes glued together with software trickery and a bit of reverb. Just do whatever sounds good to you.

    DG
  • V
    V

    Thank you very much Paul.  An answer is always very appreciated!  [:)]

    Maybe like you said the difference is very hard to distinguish...
  • V
    V

    If Dietz see this thread...

    There is a thing I don't understand.  Why the Appassionata 14 violas natural volume is at -7.  and Orchestral 14 violins is at -13.5?  That's a huge difference...
  • W
    W

    Another thing to consider Vincent is this - I have sometimes noticed a general change in the timbre based upon using a different size ensemble for second violins.   It is natural to think, maybe use Orchestral for 2nds, or Chamber if you are using Appassionata for firsts.  But it may actually change your overall violin ensemble's timbre.  So even though it may seem wrong in numbers, you may find that using Appassionata Violins on 2nd as well as 1st, by means of a  pitch shift/transposition, will make your violins sound much richer. 

    Though on the other hand, in certain pieces, Orchestral or even Chamber can add complexity by virtue of their having a very different timbre from the Appassionata.  So it depends on the piece.   But the exact numbers are absolutely inaudible as was pointed out, and not worth worrying about. 

  • V
    V

     Wow,  thank you very much for your help William!