Adding an existing Instance to an existing Metaframe

[jdk90026]

I can't figure out how to open up a preserved instance when I have another metaframe open.

Let's say you have a metaframe with an orchestra instance and a rhythm section instance in it, and in another session you had built a specific Instance, like a horn section, but only saved it as a preserved instance and/or as a project.   I want access to all three instances but can't seem open the metaframe AND the other instance.   Is there a way to do this other than rebuilding a whole 3 instance metaframe?

Thanks,

J

[DG]

1. Save the extra instances that you want access to as viframes
2. Open your master metaframe
3. Add instance (either in the server window or in your DAW)
4. Connect
5. Load your desired viframe

DG 

[jdk90026]

Thanks!

Is it better to then save that 3 instance set up as a new Mframe, or as a Project?    The 2 instance set is one I use over and over, but I need to modify it by each new project (work project, not VEP project), adding instruments as necessary.   Advice?   Finally starting to understand the VEP file hierarchy, but still learning

Thanks again,

J

[jdk90026]

Wow this is not a reliable approach.  Followed those instructions and reloaded everything fine, but since then, everytime I load a saved metaframe or project containing what I expected were the 3 instances, a different configuration would load.   Like only 2 instances, 2nd named as the third, or duplicate instances with the 3rd missing.   THe one time I got all 3 loaded, the third would not output any audio, (carefully checked all routing).   

I understand how to build instances and save reliablly as a multiframe, but any other ideas on how to ADD INSTANCES to existing multframes?  So far all I get is chaos, easier to start from scratch (but not easy enough that that is a solution)

Thanks,

John

[civilization 3]

@jdk90026 said:

Thanks!

Is it better to then save that 3 instance set up as a new Mframe, or as a Project?

More than one instance, 3 instances, means it is a metaframe. for VE Pro a 'project' is another name for a single instance, viframe.

loading metaframes is an absolutely reliable way to work. I'm not exactly sure what you are actually doing; If you are trying to manage metaframes that are coupled to a DAW project, the DAW project is charged with loading what is saved with that project. this is likely the root of your confusion. the metaframes themselves do not recall vi frame names, they recall the metaframe instance name. To add a vi frame to a metaframe, 'add new instance' is what you want. you have to give that a name; that is the name the metaframe calls up. When you save a viframe name, that is a different name. you can name them the same thing ['winds'], but these are two different properties. When you quit out of that metaframe, that viframe name will only show if you load it anew [via 'add new instance'] or the name you give during ' save [project] as...'. Not sure but it may be that, when coupled, the DAW project recalls viframe names, which would fit with your confusion.

the name you can (re-)name via the server window connected to the DAW is not the viframe name, but the [metaframe] instance name.

for instance, the composition I just finished involved five movements. for the x64 server that means 5 different metaframes. I was moving from metaframe to metaframe all the time. However, I decouple them from Cubase. These, preserved instances - using very similiar sample sets - makes fast reliable switching of projects possible. the way I work is when I build the metaframe, I name the instances '1, 2' etc which correspond with the slot number in Cubase's VST rack. I have a consistent way of organizing these: '[instance] 1/slot 1',  is going to be more or less the same part of the orchestra from project to project for instance. I do name them more descriptively as though templates at the viframe level, but again the metaframe is not charged with recalling that name.

[civilization 3]

  'ADD'^

Here is a metaframe with both the instance name and the viframe name shown  (instances:) the latter [in brackets] will not appear if I exit and reload this metaframe. But for purposes of later metaframe building I have a pretty good idea what they are by the 'project/viframe' name.

INSTANCE NAMES: 2, 3, 1.

PROJECT NAME, eg: Stranger #2 "2" [BFD2]

METAFRAME NAME: Stranger #2 "2,3,1"

I could delete eg., 'instance 2' and make a new instance (I could call it '2', or whatever) in order to load a different saved project. deleting '2' gets rid of 'Stranger #2 "2" [BFD2]' as far as the metaframe but that viframe is still extant in the custom data folder.

personally, I would only delete eg., "2" if I was going to have no slot 2 loaded in the next Cubase project. If I wanted to populate a new metaframe that is going to be used with a new project w.VSTI slot 2 (ie., BFD2 used in the Cubase project), I will have {instance = "2"/project = 'project name [BFD2]'}. and when I have a new Cubase project name I will save the metaframe, and probably the viframe with a name that corresponds with that, in a folder that indicates such.

[jdk90026]

Thanks for this - I'll fiddle with it and see if it's clearer - I'm sure I'm not the only one to find this confusing, so I'll reply with results but here are also a few points which are still vague to me - any thoughts welcome, but i'll revise when i repost

"add new instance" appeared to only open a new, empty VEP mixer, which I would then configure from scratch, and preserve from with the DAW (using Pro Tools and Logic).   It doesn't appear to offer a choice of existing instances, and I haven't tried typing in the name of a preserved instance, but is that what you do to add one that you've saved? (and delete instance - does it only remove it from the metaframe or delete it entirely?)

in case it's helpful to others or to anyone with helpful suggestions - here's my workflow:

what i am trying to do is establish a recurring set of instruments, say orchestra and rhythm section, as a template metaframe on the slave.
as i come to new music where i need special instruments, add those, while still having access to my basic set.   and ideally save THAT as it's own metaframe, so i can revert to the basic set when necessary.

i've saved the basics as BASIC - metaframe, and in the DAW, have a template session with those instances connected, (decoupled - as I understand this is the way to leave the metaframe loaded in VEP, so i can open other master sessions without reloading all my instruments).

when i need new instruments, i add a new VEP instance in the DAW, and configure that new instance in VEP, and save that set of 3 instances as a new metaframe.    when trying to access instances preserved before i discovered that order, that's when i have problems. 

I did what the first reply suggested, and opening the saved Project would open unpredictable things- it would open the old instance with the name of one of the two open instances in the template metaframe, and close one or both of those

[civilization 3]

you are unclear still on 'instance' vs 'projects/vi frames'. these are TWO DIFFERENT PROPERTIES. I cannot say it any more clearly.

if you look at my image, you see the two things. opening a project in the same instance, means the instance name is of course the same. unless you deleted that instance, make a new one, requiring you to make a name. There is absolutely_nothing_unpredictable about it. You are simply confusing the two things as one.

an instance contains a project. it is not the project. 'add new instance' means an empty instance. Deleting an instance does not change the project's existence, It is just a container for a project; you need an instance to load a project. if you delete the instance, of course the project vanishes from the metaframe with its instance, since the instance contains it, is necessary for it.

again, if you keep the instance it keeps its name. which is not the same name as the project name (unless you make the two_separate_properties have identical names). Again, I call my *instances* simply by the number corresponding with the VSTI slot and the *project*, viframe names tend to be more descriptive for future reference. As depicted.

after you quit out of the metaframes, the project, viframe names disappear. You have only the instance names when you open a metaframe.

[jdk90026]

Thanks for your input,  I appreciate it.   

Understood that instance and project are two different things - but there's a lot of conflicting info out there.   The manual, for example, describes a project as containing an instance - not the other way around.   But it's all beginning to make some sense.

One hitch for me in understanding all this is that it seems to take several steps to load a template -when I boot VEP, and open a metaframe, I get my instances in the VEP server, listed with only the instance names, like this:  

Only once I highlight one of these instances can I then load a project, which you must do for each instance.   Saving the metaframe only saves the instances present, not the projects.  Excuse me if this seems obtuse, but just to be totally clear-can you load a metaframe that will call up the state seen in your photo above, or do you have to 1 open VEP,  2) load a metaframe, then 3) click on each instance in the server window and  load your projects?  

I work with everything always decoupled in the DAW,so I can close and open 30-40 different sessions and not have to reload samples every time.   Seems this way, all I really need is the metaframe loaded no?   I don't yet see what's advantageous about saving and loading project/viframes, because I already loaded those instruments once when I opened the metaframe.