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Hi,
I have orch and app strings so far, concidering purchasing solo, and chambers,
the one thing that keeps bugging me it that the articulation among all there libraries are not uniform. well solo is an ecception,
Chambers, has some articulation that that orches does not and visa versa, i have been reading and I dont see how one would write and spread the work among the section with matching articulations
How do you guys handle that ?
Actually, the different libraries have the most uniform articulations I have encountered among sample libraries. This is because of the very methodical approach VSL adopted early on. I've found that you can do a complete replacement of different size ensembles, with almost no tweaking, from App strings, to Orch, Chamber and Solo. This is if you replace the characteristic instruments. For example, if you go from sustain in App to sustain Orch, 4-layer legato, detache, etc. You are right there are some differences, but those are in one group having some extra samples the other doesn't. In the basics, they are the same, so you can do an entire orchestration for App and then change it to Orch or whatever. You do have to be aware of which instrument you are replacing for a specific track. But the ability to go from a big ensemble to a small solo group is really facilitated by the uniformity of sampling of all the different ensembles. One thing I've done is to use a uniform keyswitch on my custom patches, so that I always know that C is legato, C# is sustain, etc. Then, when you change over to a different ensemble, there is very little tweaking to do.
btw if you have those string libraries you have GOT to have the others, because they increase the power of what you can do tremendously, and match the sound perfectly. Solo for example is always being layered with App because of the espressivo quality you can get. But also, divisi can be done really well with splitting between the various sized ensembles. And of course, the Chamber have that "baroque" (or Downtown Urban) sound that is essential for a lot of music.
Sorry I cannot agree with you and William
When I have bought the Appa and SE PLUS I have noticed that depending the articulation the last note may be different on the strings.
I have made a report to VSL support and the answer is : it is in the manual, you have to check your articulation changes, IT IS LIKE THAT !
I could say I was very surprised !
Have VSL done something about it since, I have not check !
I cannot check my report as I am on holiday and I dont have access to my main computer
There are slight differences in highest note ranges, of course. You will find the same thing with a live orchestra. Try getting violins to go up to the exact same high Cs in different ensembles and it will be a disaster. However, that is no problem since it is one or two semi tones difference, and if you ever run into an extremely rare situation of the highest of all notes not being there you can transpose. On all aspects of range other than extreme high notes, all the string ensembles are correct ranges and the articulations all match to the degree that you can substitute an entire Chamber string orchestra for an Appassionata orchestra with almost no tweaking. Same thing with solos and Orchestral. I know because I have done it several times on different pieces. It is wonderful to be able to add different layers of string sound so easily.
Hi Paul,
So when extending the range, are those actual sample or simply just treaching the last sample,
Also is there a way to get couple more more lower notes on the cell so both violins and cello play G2 when the cellos are in unison at two octive lower
?
Further more, alot of cool sound design can be achived by very low streached samples :)
Hi mazeka,
Also is there a way to get couple more more lower notes on the cell so both violins and cello play G2 when the cellos are in unison at two octive lower
?
No. Stretching sample ranges only makes sense in the range we allow it (2 semi-tones) for this sensitive material.
Best,
Paul
@William said:
There are slight differences in highest note ranges, of course.
I do not understand why it is not possible to have the same range for each articulation of an instrument, if it is really impossible for VSL the solution could be to issue an error message "note out of range " and to stop on that note
Thanks in advance for finding a solution
Best
Cyril
Cyril, here is one possible answer:
As a bass player, when one is playing in the extreme upper register, one simply doesn't have the same flexibility. That will be less an issue on a cello, and even less on a viola or violin.
But, a couple things will be common to all: as the length of the vibrating string gets shorter, the manner in which it vibrates changes. For the clearest example, take pizz. When played in first position, the note will ring for some time, while when played in an extreme upper register, it will barely ring at all. Also, as one plays further up the fingerboard, string tension increases, considerably so in the extreme ranges as the distance from the point where the string touches the fingerboard (the stopped note) to the fixed bridge height of the string gets much shorter.
Also, true for all strings: as one plays in higher positions, one must move the bow position closer to the bridge as well.
In general, one simply doesn't have as wide a range of options at the top of the fingerboard that one does in basic to moderately high positions. Extreme virtuosity in the highest positions is fairly rare - sometimes required for solo literature, less so for orchestral works.
Again, speaking double-bass (as that is what I am most familiar with) in the VSL world some articulations go up roughly to the octave + a fourth or fifth or so on the top string. A number of the articulations go up to the two octave harmonic, and a couple go a whole step above that.
In the solo literature, a very few pieces require the soloist to go up to the Bb (a minor third above the two octave harmonic). Those notes are generally written very carefully, and prepared for, as they are extremely difficult to play. OTOH, being able to play in moderately high to high thumb position is the norm.
Contrast that with orchestral music, where it wasn't until the turn of the 19th into the 20th century where thumb position was required at all. Similarly, less virtuosity is generally required of second violinists than the first violinists (there are numerous jokes about 2nd violinists and violists compared to 1st violinists, as well as bassists compared to cellists, and bassists in general).
Anyway, those are some general thoughts.
Thanks Noldar12 for this interesting answer.
There is so much to know !
To help us it should be easy to add in the VSL player :
If note_value is empty then display ("The note", note_value, " played by ", instrument_value, " is out of range") ; stop
Thanks in advance VSL
Best
Cyril
