Mixing VSL with voice

[Suntower]

Perhaps this may -seem- like a post for the software forum, but I'm looks for a -recommendation-. I understand that recommendations outside of VSL products is frowned upon by some but... whatever.

I'm trying to do some mockups with VSL and singers (recorded in a dry studio). If I audtion the singers in Cubase (with various reverb plugs) they sound fine. If I listen to my 'orchestra'? Again, sounds fine. But mixed together? Regardless of the combinations of 'plugs' I've tried:

IK Classic reverb

Cubase Reverence

UAD EMT 140, Dreamverb

...nothing sounds convincing. It always sounds like... a guy in a studio in front of a mic and a MIDI orchestra. But again, -soloed-, the voices sound fine. Even if the voices are DRENCHED in verb, there's this 'contrast'. And again: the orchestra alone sounds -great-. It's as though the natural space of VSL 'cancels out' the artificial space of the voice.

What I -want- is that sense that you're listening to a singer on stage: you know, where one has to strain slightly to get their words because they're -behind- the orchestra from the listener's POV.

Anyone know what I'm on about? And if so... any ideas? I haven't tried MIR, but I was thinking that this was not a -product- issue so much as a -technique- issue that others doing mockups might've run into many times before.

Ideas?

TIA,

---JC

[civilization 3]

It used to be a matter of mixing skill but now not so much with MIR Pro.

For decades, 'back to front' in a studio type of scenario, where there is no such depth as far as the reality of the recording, was an illusion got via mixing prowess. involving a number of tricks, pre and post send levels to a reverb unit or chamber, EQ etc (duller = distance type of thinking),  wide stereo vs monoraul...

REVerance is a convolution. I'm not too captivated by it but some like it. The Classic by IKMM is not my idea of a suitable 'verb for the purpose you described. The Hybrid Reverb in Vienna Suite is a good way to go; there are ways in the regular Convo' 'verb but Hybrid provides tails which does give you back of room effect quite easily. But still we are relying the balance of dry vs wet [send level/return of the send channel].

With MIR you just set the choir to the back of the venue, et voila. and you can still treat the individual components as though an artificial scenario, make some placement all the way dry or wet...

[Suntower]

Thanks. I always forget: how does one get to the demo download? Is it in my User Area somewhere?

BTW: we did another test session yesterday and figured out one big issue: proximity effect. When we moved the singers =much= further off the mics than usual... and switched to figure 8s, the results were MUCH better. That proximity bump is aptly named!

---JC

[William]

 If you use MIR Pro you can create a totally seamless combination of any audio source with Vienna Instruments.  It requires no special tweaking, as the sound from the audio inputs is perfectly integrated into the rest of the mix.  It is amazing how well MIR can put any sound right on stage with the sampled instruments and they don't have that separate source quality you are talking about at all.  I have experienced that in the past myself and know what you mean.   I am doing a song cycle for soprano and orchestra right now.  I originally recorded the soprano totally dry, and close up in a small studio area.  MIR Pro allows that source to fit perfectly with the orchestral setup.  Also, you don't have to make it wetter to integrate it. You can use the exact amount of dry/wet you want and it still sounds correct. 

[civilization 3]

@Suntower said:

Thanks. I always forget: how does one get to the demo download? Is it in my User Area somewhere?

products, in this case software, select the product and 'try', then checkout as if a buy. you'll get a demo license.

[Paul]

Hi,

Just wanted to add that this thread is hopefully a good summary on the procedure to test MIR PRO.

Best,

Paul

[Suntower]

Thanks for all the replies... will start checking 'em out.