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  4. Is this normal MIR PRO automation issues?

  • Is this normal MIR PRO automation issues?

    C
    C

    I am having very annoying issues with automation and don't know if this is the way it's supposed to work, or if it's a bug with VE PRO 5 or my DAW.  I am just starting to do my own mixes so automation is new to me.

    1.  Create a few Tracks, assign a VST3 instance of VE PRO 5/MIR PRO.

    2.  Assign each channel a seperate midi channel (and port whent the project is enormous).

    3.  Record a series of notes in each track.

    4.  Go to automation and setup automation for expression on track 1 (to me this looks like Dummy 1-1-11).  I am not doing this with a seperate automation track, I am adding automation directly to the VST channel.

    5.  Enable write/latch/touch (your preference).  Hit play and begin writing automation to track 1.

    6.  Set the automation mode to READ now, yay it worked and sounds beautiful, bravo now call mommy and brag.

    7.  Now go to track 2, setup automation for parameter expression (for me this is dummy 1-2-11).

    8.  Turn on Write/Latch/Touch (your preference).

    9. Hit play and record your automation.  You're happy with the automation and hit save!!  Woohoo!

    10.  Now get pissed off because you just realized Track 1 has also followed you and turned on Write/Latch/Touch without you knowing it (and you ruined your previous automation for that track).

    11.  From here on out, you realize that no matter what you do or what parameter you are automating, every channel that has automation on it for that VE PRO 5 plug-in turns on to the same mode you choose for the one you want to edit (so turning on automation 1-1-11 for channel 1 turns on channel 52 which is using port 4-3-11).

    No matter what I do from here on out, if I try to automate track 2 (flutes) it will overwrite the automation for track 1.  Sometimes this was hard to see because I would be automating track 23, and notice all of a sudden on playback, track 3 was SCREAMING at me because it got a complete reset of automation.  It doesn't apply the newly recording automation curves, it literally just follows the playback marker and write to it a straight 100% non curved automation.

    Whos problem is this (besides mine)?

    Thanks,

    Maestro2be
  • C
    C

    Ok so to add to that I just confirmed the following:

    1.  If I try to automate any parameter, on any channel that is using the VE PRO 5 instance, they all get engaged at once.  Enabling dummy 1-1-11 to Latch mode turns on Latch mode for dummy 5-12-68 as an example.

    2.  However, if I change to DAW automation (the local host channel volume slider, or pan etc) it doesn't engage.

    So it's definitely something about automating VE PRO 5, that if you enable any channel to automate a parameter, it's engaging all channels on that plug-in instance.

    Any solutions?
  • C
    C

    Friendly bump :).
  • K
    K

    You shouldn't be automating those Dummy parameters. Each of them actually represents a MIDI CC on a specific MIDI port and channel. For regular automation you should use the provided Param1-512. Automating for instance Dummy 1-2-3 will actually automate MIDI CC 3 on port 1, channel 2.
  • C
    C

    But that is actually what I am trying to do (unless I am misunderstanding you).  I want to automate only the expression for one instrument at a time for instance.  So if I wanted to automate the first instrument on the first channel and first port expression, it would be dummy 1-1-11.

    The problem is, why when I arm automation for the VE PRO plug-in (regardless of parameter etc), does it turn on the same mode for ALL channels/Tracks in my entire composition simultaneously?  It then overwrites all the other channels.  It doesn't change every channel to the exact same parameter of automation, it just turns automation from READ to WRITE/LATCH/TOUCH (depending what I choose) and then ruins all my automation for all other tracks within VE PRO.

    So basically I never get beyond two tracks because after I record one, then try the second it overwrites the first.  So at the moment it's impossible for me to do automation on more than one track currently.

    Maestro2be
  • K
    K

    First of all: the Dummy parameters should be left alone. They are there for technical reasons (enabling MIDI CC input), not to get automated directly.

    The VE Pro plugin works like any VST3 instrument with automatable parameters, so I'm not really sure what the problem is. It sounds like an user error related to the host you're using. It helps to describe in exact steps from starting up Cubase to encountering the problem, so I can either point out the error or reproduce it.
  • C
    C

    Good stuff Karel, and of course this could be user error :)!  I will stay away from dummy parameters and try to setup regular parameter automation points.

    When you say, a step by step, is my first post of this thread not detailed enough to reproduce it?  I thought that's what I provided.  (I don't use Cubase, I use Studio One).

    I am going to make a short video clip movie for you to watch, that would be probably 10,000 teims more explanatory so you can visually see what I am doing, and watch the results.  Give me a few moments to finish the video.

    Thanks,

    Maestro2be
  • K
    K

    Thanks, a video is usually the best way to show these things indeed.
  • C
    C

    Ok thanks, here is the video.  In the video you can see that I tested both Dummy and Parameter.  I just want to know how to stop having it engage all tracks of VE PRO at once.  If I create other tracks that are not VE PRO they do not engage.

    http://www.mediafire.com/?lce3j5qnb7b3zj6

    Maestro2be
  • K
    K

    Thanks for the video. I don't know about the automation mode being linked like that, but I'm sure the Studio One manual has some information about that (it's not related to VE Pro). I see what you really want to do is automate MIDI CC though, and you're looking at the plugin's automatable parameters (which are unrelated to MIDI altogether). You should check the Studio One manual on how to send MIDI CC data to a VST3 instrument plugin.
  • C
    C

    Thanks Karel, I have a few things for you/

    1.  When I instantiate a VST3 version of MIR PRO 5, it does not allow me to see any of the midi parameters in the automation lanes (Studio One calls these, "Instrument Part Automation").  I can pick "parameters" and "Dummy" lanes only.  If I load a VST2 version of VE PRO, I get true MIDI CC automation lanes.  This is why I was picking the dummy parameters.  let me show you this short video of what I am talking about.

    http://www.mediafire.com/?ddiqi4mhlef8ouo

    2.  Does this look like the side effects of a DAW that doesn't handle VST3 MIDI support?  In the video you will see it doesn't even recognize midi at all.  You will see the two different lanes (the MIDI CC lanes are the lanes you see in the video in the "EDIT" window at the bottom.  Not the lanes you see when I click the "Automation" screen in the arrange window.

    3.  In regards to all tracks simultaneously engaging the same automation mode, I tested your "this isn't a VE PRO issue" and I can replicate it in Kontakt 4 and 5.  The initial issue in comparison was I was always picking multi-timbral styled VE's compared to SINGLE versions of other plug-ins.  When I created a Multi-Timbral 16 channel Kontakt Plug-in you can clearly see the exact same behavior with the "engaging all tracks simultaneously". So this definitely seems DAW related if your other DAWs dont do this (can you please confirm for me)?

    Thanks,

    Maestro2be
  • K
    K

    I don't have Studio One to try it out here, but it definitely seems host implementation related. You should check how to send MIDI CC messages to a VST3 instrument plugin in Studio One.
  • S
    S
    With respect I think you should invest in a copy of Studio One! This is likely to become a popular choice of DAW and you should be keen to ensure your product functions correctly with it. Kind regards Stuart
  • C
    C

    So I read the entire manual, the forums and finally got a hold of Presonus on the phone.  Their answers about this:

    1.  For now, the naming is messed up and you have to choose "the dummy parameters to send CC midi data".  They will be addressing this.

    2.  Activating automation for every single instance of a plug-in at once, I did a video for them and they said they are going to look into this.  I told them for now I am getting around it by using only LATCH, as then it won't destroy my other channels during live playback entering (since I do mine in realtime, not drawing it in with my mouse etc).

    3.  I gave them the email to support and they are going to initiate contact about these issues to help resolve them.

    You said that technically it's not a good idea to use the dummy channels, but the only other option I have is to go back to using the VST2 version and use many different MIR instances compared to just one.  Which one is the better alternative, to use dummy channels for Midi CC data to VE PRO 5, or to to use the VST2 version and multiple instances?

    Maestro2be
  • K
    K

    The dummy parameters should work just fine in that case.