Vsl Performance set - repitition mode

[acoustech]

I spent 3 hours experimenting with the repetition mode in the performance tool, I tried cello's, violas, violins and the 4 FR. Horn samples. the tempo was 165 playing 8th note triplets in 6 note phrases and then modulating the note, I was cranking the tempo of the sequence well above the vls performance set tempos, for the most part it works pretty well, especially compared to what it would sound like without the performance set & tool. but the notes seem a bit inconsistent at times, some notes are lagging or a bit unsmooth, I tried some keyswitching to shut of the 1st note in the sequence after the 1st cycle of the '9 note performance preset' passed. I even tried the chain mode and reconfiguring the matrix to put in more variation. I find it hard to get the violins, violas, cello's to sync up together and to sound together with oneanother. I did try pulling back the midi performances earlier against my sequencers metronome click, but it still isn't great... Am I missing something here to smooth things out? am I expecting too much?

...also, the sections I experimented with didn't seem too responsive to making accents on certain notes to emphasize a particular rhythm via midi velocity, just didn't seem too dynamic, any ideas to accomplish this?

thanks in advance

acoustech

[herb]

Hi Acoustech,

if you are performing more than 9 repetition note in cycle it's always better to set the starting note OFF.
I also often use the chain mode switching Off all starting notes (and most of the last notes). If a starting note is necessary I take a normale single note sample from a different miditrack

In the manual you will find delay values of each performance repetition instrument. These delays are the overlapping parts between the notes and important to achieve realistic repetitions.

A possible workflow is to programm with single note samples, and than exchanging it to perfromance repetitions. and setting a "predelay" to the miditrack.
Personally I prefer to play the repetitions live (Starting Notes OFF), and compensating the delay during performance. I'm a bad keyboard player, so I need 2 or 3 times to get the right feeling, but mostly it is worth to do it.

best
Herb

[Greg Petusky]

A mere three hours? You must not be having fun. Anyway, I wondered the same thing, and suspected it's possible that MIDI latency could be a problem. My tests involved a single machine, and my results were not consistently in tempo. Once I achieved the perfect feel for a phrase, playback would occasionally trigger notes out of time, and sometimes hit right on the beat. But there were other tracks eating MIDI bandwidth.
Could MidiYoke, given a busy project, be introducing latency? I just started a project with V1 port reps, and I don't have the problem. Tight timing would seem to be critical for repetitions. If software-induced latency is killing the timing, I may just keep reps on another machine with a straight MIDI input!

[acoustech]

@Another User said:

Personally I prefer to play the repetitions live (Starting Notes OFF), and compensating the delay during performance. I'm a bad keyboard player, so I need 2 or 3 times to get the right feeling, but mostly it is worth to do it.

** I find that to be very difficult to do, I am a guitar player who is terrible on the keyboard, I use a midi guitar at times but it doesn't track fast enough to do fast lines so sometimes I play fast lines half speed.

other questions: what about using accents (notes with a higher velocity) to help carve out a musical phrase, the programs I experimented with didn't seem to be velocity sensative, do you use another midi track & program to accent on top of the repetition track for accents?

also, I have noticed that there are some performance programs that don't have the same exact tempo written in their description as the repetition tool presets,
what do you do in this case?

thanks so much for the information, I really appreciate the help.

[acoustech]

@Greg Petusky said:

A mere three hours? You must not be having fun. Anyway, I wondered the same thing, and suspected it's possible that MIDI latency could be a problem. My tests involved a single machine, and my results were not consistently in tempo. Once I achieved the perfect feel for a phrase, playback would occasionally trigger notes out of time, and sometimes hit right on the beat. But there were other tracks eating MIDI bandwidth.
Could MidiYoke, given a busy project, be introducing latency? I just started a project with V1 port reps, and I don't have the problem. Tight timing would seem to be critical for repetitions. If software-induced latency is killing the timing, I may just keep reps on another machine with a straight MIDI input!

thank for the response greg, , just as a test, I was using 4 parts and nothing else on port one. I am running a new giga system with alot of power, the midi is coming from a g4 dual 800 mac running digital perfomer. the midi goes to a motu midi time piece express then into a hammerfall hd 96/52 card right into the perfomance tool and into giga 2.5. with only 4 parts, I doubt it is "MidiYoke" (I assume that means too many midi notes/info and it chokes?) if it is the case with a small sequence like mine, then I'll be very dissapointed. as far as midi latency goes, I assumed it to be constant, just as a delay. I am gonna try some of herbs suggestions tomorrow and see if it helps.

thanks

Acoustech

[herb]

**so after shutting off the 1st and last notes in the matrix, do you vary certain notes in the chain to "off" in an alternating pattern to achieve greater variation?

Yes, so you get a controlled random effect.
A typicall chain mode setup could look like this:

0:1:1:1:0:0:1:1:0
0:0:0:1:1:1:1:0:1
0:1:0:1:1:0:0:1:0
0:1:1:0:0:1:1:0:0
0:0:0:1:1:0:0:1:0
0:1:0:0:1:0:1:1:0
etc.

** do you mean it adjusts the timing of the spaces in between each of the notes in the repetition phrase?

No, you can't adjust the timing between the notes this way.
The delay is here because each sample (except the starting note) is starting with a little release sound of the previous note. If you perform on the keyboard this overlap blends with the release of your previous performed note. So this delay is part of the samples.

*** I usually pull the midi performance backwards against a click once I finish to improve the latency, is that what you are refering to when you say setting a
"predelay" - I'm not sure I know what that means.

Sorry, maybe I used a wrong term.
I meant, you can compensate the "attack-delay" of the samples shifting the whole miditrack

other questions: what about using accents (notes with a higher velocity) to help carve out a musical phrase, the programs I experimented with didn't seem to be velocity sensative, do you use another midi track & program to accent on top of the repetition track for accents?

At the moment, the repetitions in gigaformat do only have single velocity mappings. Therefore the velocity spread is set to a lower value.
You could set a higher value in gigaeditor, but I wouldn't recommend it.

If the difference between velocity 1 to velocity 127 is not enough, I would recommend using a higher velocity or maybe single note samples on a different miditrack for these accents.

Gigastudio 3 will offer more dimension switches, and we will support artfiles for multivelocity mapped repetitions and legato instruments.


also, I have noticed that there are some performance programs that don't have the same exact tempo written in their description as the repetition tool presets,
what do you do in this case?

Generally the tempo labeling should give you the information about the slowest possible tempo of a certain instrument.
The instrument name is sometimes more precise than the gigfile or template names, which have to cover more than one instrument.

best
Herb

[acoustech]

thank you so much for the detailed info, I cant wait to experiment further at work tomorrow. You've been a big help.

Acoustech