Dimension Brass can be used as perfectly with the smaller ensembles you are talking about. There are presets that let you run through different ensemble size matrices, you can design your own matrix, or even better, assign each solo instrument to discrete tracks in VEP for more control over divisi and ensemble arrangements. The library is meant to be used with all different configurations.

Not sure how the crescendos will sound without the actual performance articulations. I believe you can sort of do what you want  with the APP sequencer in VIP 2, though again, not sure how this will sound. (I believe the APP presets assume you have the articualtions, so you would have to program your own.) Someone else with more experience re crescendo/diminuendo techniques may want to jump in here.

The chamber strings in SE and the DVD collection are the same (short of the full complement of articulations), no? Divisi of course would require having different size ensembles taking different parts instead of repeating the same full ensemble per note as you would get even with emulating 1st and 2nd violins,etc.; this is esp noticable in polyphonic passages. What you can get is the appearance of Violins 1 and 2 etc. by way of eq, filtering, and other means. There is also a way of doing it with impulses. But phasing would occur if there is an offset; here you would just have redundancy of libraries (so whay not just use your DVD collection if that's what you intend to buy) and emulate a 1st and 2nd VN arrangement?

Not sure what your needs are, but you may want to consider getting orchestral strings and/or appassionata and perhaps use the chambers that come with SE/Plus standard and extended, if that helps with your decision re Woodwinds 1 vs. SE/Plus (you get a lot of woodwinds with the SE bundle.) RE the latter, definitely get the extended libraries for both SE and Plus so you cover many articulations of solo and chamber strings (in other words, get the bundle). I have all the strings and I can tell you that the chambers sound great. I esp like the con sordinos (in which case, you would need chamber strings 2 dvd), but orchestral would seem (to me) to be the most useful across the board. Again, I don't know what your needs are. Appassionata are fantastic, though lack some important articulations. I've found that all VSL strings work well in non-orchestral genres.

Finally, I'm not sure if this works well, but a 1st and 2nd violins arrangment might be attainable using orchestral and chamber strings respectively (also layering with solo strings works nicely to get a more authentic, less anemic feel). Others might want to jump in with their own suggestions as they may be more experienced with arrangement techniques.

As always, you might want to contact VSL directly with some of these questions. They obviously know more than I do and will help you with the best purchase decision. Others on the forum should help as well. A plurality of opinions is always best. There are a few things I may be wrong about here :)

HTH

Mike

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Mike. Looks like Dimension Brass will work well for me, I just need to contemplate the strings set up a little more. To be honest I have thought of adding LASS to the VSL Chamber Strings mix for flexibiliy and divisi, not sure how well LASS works in MIR PRO though..

Cheers,

Robert

Regarding #3, you will get phasing if you use the same note/articulation in each part, as the SE samples are taken from the full library samples.

The most common way to avoid phasing (though a bit of a pain) would be to transpose the notation/sequence part of the SE chamber strings down a whole step and then using the mod wheel, raise the pitch back up a whole step to get the part into the correct key.  By doing this, each part will use different samples when playing unisons, and will avoid any phasing issues.

Yes, you will get phasing this way. I only meant that the SE chamber samples are the same as the DVD (with fewer articulations), so it is redundant to use both. Rather, my suggestion was to perhaps get orchestral strings and use them in conjunction with chamber strings; that is, you might be better served buying the orchestral DVD collection and use the SE chamber strings. Nevertheless, the transposition trick sounds interesting. Haven't tried that. Think I'll give it a go.

I have LASS. They are good but a bit anemic for my taste. They do supplement VSL nicely if you put them low in the mix. The divisi is the main selling point IMO, but I would opt for quality over divisi if it is a matter of one or the other (read, maybe wait for VSL divisi :)) To my ears VSL sounds far better and is MUCH more flexible. LASS is quite limted with re to articulations. If you're getting MIR, VSL is definitely best. The instrument profiles make life much easier, and MIR really is the realization of the VSL "dry" sample technique come to life. Finally, VIP 2 is hands down the best sample host available.  Good luck with your purchases!

Mike

Thanks Mike, you've struck a nerve with my dilemma. With the holiday specials on and the size of my purchase I could buy the Orchestral Strings Bundle for about the same as LASS and use Orchestral/Chamber/Solo strings (inc sordino) in combination for a larger and more flexible string section. There is also something simpler about staying within one platform and the VSL software and tools look unbeatable.

I've heard a lot of very nasty sounding LASS demo's but a couple I've heard (especially with LASS lite ironically which doesn't have the divisi or FC) have sounded very lush and totally convincing. You've helped me decide that SE is out of the equation, just now need to flip the Orch Strings/LASS coin. Just to clarify,  the main sound I'm looking for for my own work is a more intimate chamber orchestra sound, but given the investment involved I want reasonable coverage from quartet to huge.

Just in passing, do you have any views on VSL Percussion v Spitfire? I wondered if VSL Percussion might now roar a lttie more in the "epic" sense now that MIR PRO is in the picture.

@Arbee said:

I've heard a lot of very nasty sounding LASS demo's but a couple I've heard (especially with LASS lite ironically which doesn't have the divisi or FC) have sounded very lush and totally convincing. You've helped me decide that SE is out of the equation, just now need to flip the Orch Strings/LASS coin. Just to clarify,  the main sound I'm looking for for my own work is a more intimate chamber orchestra sound, but given the investment involved I want reasonable coverage from quartet to huge.

Hi Arbee,

This site may be helpfull to you concerning VSL vs LASS. My advise here would be the Orchestra Strings given your needs and background btw.

Best,

Erik

Thanks Erik, I'm aware of your site and it was actually your examples there that swayed me back towards Orchestral Strings - they simply sound great! While other libraries seem to do particular things very well it still seems to my ears anyway that VSL has the agility, articulations and realism to cover most bases. I don't thnk I can go wrong with Solo + Chamber + Orchestral strings and respective muted libraries as my foundation. If I get desperate for the couple of things LASS does well I might just pick up the lite version as an add on

Keep up the great work, I hope there is reward in there somewhere for your efforts!

Arbee,

No experience with Spitfire. I just started tinkering with VSL Percussion within MIR Pro. So far, really good results. However, I tend to do a lot of modern production and sound design, so I often compress the crap out of percussion to make it pump. I've gotten interesting results putting compresion on a sub post-MIR, parallel compresion, etc.--but this is all "modern" oriented. The good thing about VSL, esp now with MIR Pro, is the felxibility it gives you with the dry samples. Very forward looking. 

It is a good idea to stick with one platform to an extent. I  look at it as my go-to platform, doing the heavy lifting. As always, mixing librries, layering, even adding synth pads (and sordinos!) low in the mix helps you get that harmonic distortion and lushness dificult to attain with samples. Having a couple of libraries is a good idea, but the diversity you are contemplating with VSL can prob do that. Adding a solo string to an ensemble really does wonders. I've even pitched them (solo strings) up a few cents and have gotten nice results. To me Chamber Sordinos is incredible. Listen to the demos. I use them more than the Chambers themselves, but again, layering sordinos is fantastic. The good thing with Orchestral is that you get the sordinos. Nevertheles, you will eventually wnant at least two libraries. With the holiday offer, and the superior quality and felxibility of VSL, it seems like a no-brainer to go with VSL now.

finally, get good at VIP 2! The possibiliies are vast. Other libraries promote things like pronounced legatos ("Hollywood" style) etc., but you can get almost anything you want once you avail yourself of the vast editing features of VIP. The ability to customize matrices, the number of switching modes (try velocity switching horns with horns blare or slot x-fading them for ex), stretching, the APP sequencer etc. humanize, filtering, etc goes WAY further than other hosts.

You are making a considerable purchase. I've been there. Considering it carefully is a must. All I can say is that you can't go wrong wtih VSL, esp with MIR PRo and VIP 2, as long as you are willing to put the time into developing your programming chops. The curve is steep but rewarding. Also make sure that you have a system that can handle it all, though VSL is comparatively lighter than other libraries. To reiterate, with the holiday offer, it seems like a no-brainer given you have the money to invest and the willingness to get good at working with a non- out-of-the-box library (not to say you can't jump in right away and do some great work, but you can go much further. The depth is personally a selling point for me whereas for others, not so much.)

On a side note, I've found the plug Decapitator by Soundtoys to be very helpful in creating harmonic distortion, taking the edge off, coloring (esp when used in parallel). If I could afford a Culture Vulture or a Fatso I would get them but the plug is quite good at emulating. This is just my own personal taste, but the demo is worth trying.

HTH

Mike

 Thanks Mike, great info - much appreciated.

@mboc said:

. If you're getting MIR, VSL is definitely best. The instrument profiles make life much easier,

Mboc, 

Can you elaborate on what the instrument profiles are and how you use them? I have not been able to find anything on this feature. Is it simialr to the presets in Vienna Suite?

thx!

ds

An instrument profile is sort of like an uber-preset that refers to a specific VSL instrument within MIR. They are located at the top right of your MIR Pro/VEP5 GUI, in the instrument section. Once you load an instrument (say, OR Violins) select the appropriate profile from the pull down list or right click the icon on the MIR stage and select from the context menu. . They do a lot of the work for you, making mixing much easier. Here's a detailed explanation from the manual (preliminary manual pp22-23).

Thanks for spreading the word, Mike, and thanks for quoting the manual.

For everybody who's interested in some (easy to understand) technical and "philosophical" background, there's an add-on available for the manual, called "Think MIR!":

-> http://dl.vsl.co.at/downloader.aspx?ID=7629

Kind regards,

PS:

@mboc said:

[...] On a side note, I've found the plug Decapitator by Soundtoys to be very helpful in creating harmonic distortion, taking the edge off, coloring (esp when used in parallel). If I could afford a Culture Vulture or a Fatso I would get them but the plug is quite good at emulating. This is just my own personal taste, but the demo is worth trying.

+1!

Another great source for nice harmonic distortion are UAD's Ampex and Revox emulations.

Yes, thank you so much Mike. That was very helpful. And thank you Dietz. Very cool stuff.

Mike, do you use the instrument EQ presets from VSL Suite alongside the MIR instrument pofiles?

Now I just wish UAD was 64 bit (though I suppose VEP5 would take care of that!).

@Another User said:

Now I just wish UAD was 64 bit (though I suppose VEP5 would take care of that!).

You could either use VE Pro as a 32bit application, or wrap the plugins using a utility like jBridge -> http://jstuff.wordpress.com/jbridge/

HTH,

Thank you very much for this reply, Dietz. You have really added to my understanding of what MIR does.

A few follow up questions to your reply...

Does MIR have a Compressor  or is the compressor only found in the Vienna Suite?And, if MIR does have the compressor, does the compressor have the presets from the Vienna Suite?

Does MIR include an EQ that can be dedicated to each track or just to the master out?

Does the MIR Pro's own EQ have presets for for Vienna instruments like one can find in the Vienna Suite?

I know that MIR comes with the algorithymic reverb found in the Suite's Hyrbid rever, but does it come with Suite's convolution reverb presets as well? And if not, can one 

Thanks, Dietz!

Arghh .... I just wrote an extensive reply to your question, but I inadvertently closed the browser-window before I sent the message .... *sigh* ... hold on a second, I will write it again ... [st]

Vienna Suite and MIR Pro are different products which complement each other nicely.

@Another User said:

I know that MIR comes with the algorithymic reverb found in the Suite's Hyrbid rever, but does it come with Suite's convolution reverb presets as well?

MIRacle - the algorithmic reverb add-on that comes with MIR Pro - is of course related to Vienna Suite's Hybrid Reverb, but it's a different plugin. For obvious reasons it has no convolution reverb section, and it is fully surround compatible. Therefore the presets aren't interchangeable.

HTH,

Thanks Dietz. That really helps.

I just wish you guys offered a complete software bundle: MIR Pro, VEP5, Vienna Suite and VIP2.  Any chance?[:)]

d.

I'm just an audio guy, but I will make your suggestion known to our marketing team. [H]