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  • Do not buy acoustic treatment products until you read this thread.

    Hi everyone. I've been on this forum for many years now and this is a very regrettable topic to post about but I feel I must - many of you know me personally here and can vouch for me as I've been accused of not being honest about this situation on other forums - banned from Gearslutz for life, as well as thewombforums. This thread is to warn my fellow VSL users of a very dishonest company that is selling acoustic treatment panels.  

    I have had money stolen by this company who took the money but never shipped, then kept the money. They have acted like an absolute con artist outfit. So I want to warn all my friends on this site about them.

    Out of respect to VSL and to avoid controversy for the forum which I understand is not really a public forum but owned by VSL I will not name this company in this thread, but my friends and anyone who wants a free "heads-up" and a free warning to save you a lot of time and money, please private message me and I will gladly let you know who it is so you can avoid them like the plague if you are looking at buying some acoustic treatment and don't want to get conned. I will not recommend who you SHOULD buy from - I can't say that, but I will simply let you know who ripped me off and so who you will probably want to avoid. I am happy to do this many years after this post is made and my hope is that people will find this thread when searching for acoustic treatment and get a warning. To people who know me on here, if you want, please spread the word to others you know.

    After my order with this company was cancelled by the owner conveniently outside of PayPal's 45 day buyer protection limit they kept my money and gave me a huge run around. After taking my case to another music forum, they were pressured into giving me back just $1000 but they still owe me $1175, and it seems they have threatened that forums owners and pressured them into banning from that site! Unbelievable. Just when it was working too - so now I am on my own again and don't expect to recover any more money. Their attitude is well you got $1000 back, so be happy we didn't take it all. Absolutely unbelievable.

    I first paid this con artist outfit on July 1st 2011!!! It's now mid November.. YIKES.

    So please feel free to PM me to find out who it is.

    Obviously those who know me here know I have nothing to do with the acoustic panels business or any competitors whatsoever.

    Sorry to have to post about this here, but I don't want other people to be ripped off too.


  • Paypal might only be 45 days but I believe if you paid with a credit card a lot of them might have 90 days to dispute.  For big purchases with Paypal I always pay via credit card in the Paypal account and not bank account.

    That being said, I have seen firsthand how Gearslutz has turned into one big commercial shill forum, and have been considering just leaving that place.  They will let almost anything go down as long as you pay banner money.  For example EastWest was busted 3 times! for shilling and they still operate there doing the same kind of crap.


  • Not so from what I found out and here's why. The transaction with your credit card is between your bank / credit card company and with PayPal. Since you agree to PayPal's terms and conditions when you sign up - which includes the 45 day cutoff, then PayPal will simply say they have honoured their contract with you and you agreed to the way they conduct business beforehand. Since your credit card company has no direct relationship with the vendor, they won't get involved. It then becomes a dispute between the cc company, PayPal, and the vendor, and you. Nightmare. In my case it was not feasible particularly because my bank didn't offer great protection, and I'm overseas. It's possible other banks would help you in this case, yes.

    In other words, you paid PayPal money and they then conducted a transaction on your behalf with that money. Between the bank and PayPal, the transaction is authorised. 

    Maybe you could get traction with it, but it's a tough one.


  •  If a company takes money and doesn't supply goods, that is theft, and the criminal act of theft has no time limit, as long as you can prove payment and prove no delivery, assuming US law follows UK law on this. Though if you, Paypal and the company are in different countries, that is mighty complicated.

    The snag is, you may get the company owner arrested and convicted, you may even make him bankrupt, but that still doesn't necessarily get your money back.  It sounds like the biggest enemy in all of this is Paypal.


  • You may be right. If it was just between the bank / credit card company and the vendor, (thief) then you are right, I could lodge a complaint claiming fraud, and get my money back. But PayPal has that 45 day limit - if you don't lodge a complaint within 45 days, they don't look at it. Seems wrong to me.

    But how would you go about getting the law onto the guy - would you send the evidence to a prosecutor?


  • last edited
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    @mpower88 said:

     would you send the evidence to a prosecutor?

    Indeed you should. As noted, it's considered theft and by already having agreed to giving you back some of the money I would say they made a dumb mistake if they wanted to con money out your pocket. It's evidence that deal and a subsequent transaction of money has been done and that they acknowledge something wasn't entirely right, so question remains what explanation they have for keeping the remaing amount.

    Oh, and u can PM me the vendor. Thanks.

    I would get a lawyer on it to establish if you have enough evidence to go to court.


  • Thanks. The problem is as someone told me, this guy has been operating for years pretending he is a big company when it's basically just one guy using many names and email, like a support email, a sales team - all just one guy. He's been doing this for years but now he's taken my money and delivered nothing. The question then is, is his business tanking, does he have money problems, in which case what if I go to a lawyer, spend $1000 to establish some paperwork, and then he just goes out of business? In the meantime he rips off another bunch of people and gets away with their money too.


  • Hi Vagn Luv, for some reason I can't send you a PM, can you message me instead and I will reply to you as that's been working. Thanks.


  • which company is it? I haven't seen you mention a name in this thread(?)

  • As I said in the original post, I won't name the offending company publicly on the VSL forum. The forum is owned by VSL, obviously, and it's for their own purposes, not for people to come and name trouble makers on here and cause controversy for the VSL team. I have tried to name who ripped me off on a couple of public / general music forums and was banned from two of them... [:D], this is just my way of warning friends and anyone on here who would like a heads up of a particularly dishonest manufacturer to avoid, in my direct experience. Just PM me.

    FYI, I still haven't gotten my money back.