@William said:

 This entire thread is wrong.

VSL is not unethical.  They are using industry standard copy protection.   This guy who wrote the thread is trying to attack that, by attacking VSL.

I find it irritating, because the company is a fine group of people who have created a tremendous artistic tool.  They should not be subjected to this kind of attack because it is inappropriate and wrong.

@delavagus said:

What's so hard to understand about this? There are two separate issues here: (a) The policies; (b) VSL's willful (for it is willful!) refusal to take reasonable steps to ensure that their customers are informed about said policies.

What's hard for me to understand is VSL's motive behind this.  What would VSL gain by not informing their customers "about said policies."

Are you saying that VSL is purposely not informing customers about the dongle policy in the hopes that people will be careless with their dongles, lose or break them, then VSL can make extra $$$$ by charging the unfortunate customer to get his licences returned?  Is that what you are insinuating? 

I've never met the VSL team personally but, for some reason, I can't imagine Herb, Paul, Deitz, CM, Stefen, etc, all standing around a bubbling caldron perched on a large pentagram carpet rubbing their hands together letting out an evil laugh everytime a sucker, I mean, customer buys one of their products.  Then Herb stirs the caldron and says, "I'll get you my little pretty and your little dog Toto too.  Muha! Ha! Ha!" 

I don't know I'm just not seeing it Roger.  On the other hand Halloween is just around the corner. 

On my opinion most users will not think about the "worst case scenario". Like: "It will not happen often, so then don´t let it be me!"
I have seen further discussions about the dongle problem and I can not understand too why there is no pleasing way for us - the users.
So, if I bought VSL-Software for more then 10.000 bugs his destiny is attached to a little 30 bugs dongle.

I´m sad about the fact, that I do not have any chance to cover up my licenses. There is no insurence and I can not say that VSL is getting into it to give us,
the buyer of there products a conclusion where both sides can life with cause 50% of the know price isn´t one.

I was woundering why there is no eLicenser with a "mac-adress" like it is used for network-cards for example. An unique number and if the dongle then
gets lost/destroyed you buy a know dongle and change the "mac-adress" on the VSL-Website.
All you would need is an internet-connection in a period of time.
I´ve heard some argue that they don´t have internet on the PC where the dongle is connected, but what´s better?
Going down under your table some weeks in the year and pull the dongle in an internet-pc or getting an heart-attack from the lost!
And then the second one when you reached the mail from VSL that´s "only the half price" from what you´ve payed before now to get your project finished!

I´m a little disappointed that VSL doesn´t get into this discussion either in this threat nor in others before others cause all this replys shows that there is need for action.

regards

Torsten

Although i would not accuse VSL of being unethical  -- as they have, for me, in the last 5 years provided nothing but EXCEPTIONAL customer service to me  -- i DO think this whole "key/license" issue needs to be addressed in some manner.

If you care to refer to MY story  -- my EXTREMELY close call regarding the theft of my computer  ---  i did have a near miss with a catasrtophic nightmare and the near-loss of nearly $10,000 of my licenses.

Read HERE, if you care to:
http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/25480/185041.aspx#185041 

I would be delighted to see, somewhere in the future, some sort of time-based  re-authorization. Many people have decried this as to how "annoying" it would be to every 90 days have to re-log and re-authorize your key's licenses... But the time-cost of THAT is minimal compared to the immense loss if a key were to be stolen or lost.

Regardless, i am, to this day, content with VSL's customer service  ... maybe only because i escaped utter tragedy by the skin of my teeth. Still, i think it would be in the common interest of ALL VSL users for VSL to at least provide SOME sort of 2nd option regarding keeping our purchases secure.

@mplaster said:

 Many people have decried this as to how "annoying" it would be to every 90 days have to re-log and re-authorize your key's licenses... But the time-cost of THAT is minimal compared to the immense loss if a key were to be stolen or lost.

it is quite simple to check if your USB key has not be reported lost, stolen ... and disable to it, if is the case

It is up to VSL and Steinberg to do it (the eLC is Steinberg)

The oher solution is to be able to do a backup of your key, like French law is allowing

I am also very surprised that nobody form VSL is participating to the thread

What is that backup solution that French law allows for? Do you have a backup that in case you lose your key you can re-install your licences on a new key as if nothing happened?

I don't think that VSL does enough to make their policies obvious. I don't know if it is intentional or not. If it is, then that is a problem. However, there is enough information about this on the web that one should be performing a bit of research before spending thousands of dollars here. 

With that said, I do not agree with the lost key policies, but I also do not believe that people should be given freedom from responsibility. If your key was stolen, and there was a police report, that is one thing. If you lost it, it isn't VSL's fault. *You* lost it. 

I think a fair policy would be:

1. First time the key is lost, you pay for a new key, the cost of generating a new license (I'm assuming that Steinberg charges VSL per key generated), and reasonable "idiot" fee for having lost it. This fee should never exceed 25% of the original cost, at most. 

2. After that, you get one more shot. You pay for everything again, in full. Anything beyond a second time, no more VSL for you. 

The French law allows, but if VSL does not allow, they will be condamned by the French gov

@Cyril said:

The French law allows, but if VSL does not allow, they will be condamned by the French gov

Condamned Cyril !!!!!!  

And ex communicated too!!

@Cyril said:

The French law allows, but if VSL does not allow, they will be condamned by the French gov

Condamned Cyril !!!!!!  

And ex communicated too!!

LOL

@delavagus said:

I have been engaged in a long and fruitless discussion with VSL concerning their policies regarding USB Licensing Keys, specifically their policies concerned with the loss of said keys

What VSL fails to mention is that the center of gavity for this whole policy is really Steinberg who owns the e-licenser control center - the software that ran the download of the original license. From Steinberg's website,

"Since January 2005, Steinberg is a wholly owned subsidiary of Yamaha Corporation, the world's leading manufacturer of audio hardware"[6]

Hi VSL

Did you talk to you lawyer ?

Do you have an update on this ?

Do I have to get a juridical insurance ?

Best

Cyril

Vienna super package is never going travelling again..

@JSAntares said:

Vienna super package is never going travelling again..

if you have an unwanted visitor you are .....

@JSAntares said:

Vienna super package is never going travelling again..

if you have an unwanted visitor you are .....

 ... claiming on the insurance that any intelligent person would have taken out. [;)]

DG

I don't care what solution (if any) will be acceptable to the company in the end. I can tell you what is not going to be acceptable to me: I will not log-in every 2 months to keep a hardware that I've paid for working, and the day VSL allows for any piracy (by allowing copying, whatever), I will be buying their products exclusively in the black market thereon. I keep telling you that VSL is not just insuring themselves against theft, but our investment in their products at the same time!

@Errikos said:

I can tell you what is not going to be acceptable to me: I will not log-in every 2 months to keep a hardware that I've paid for working,

this is ridiculous !

you connect your PC/MAC to do software update

If the checking is done in background there is no inconveignence