I guess they'd rather null in this case. On the other hand if you transpose the original part up and down and then invert the phase... I don't know then.

Normally you do not need to transpose up and down, you need just to invert ths phase

@noldar12 said:

For 6 clarinets, I would do what I suggested above.  Write out both parts (3+3), do all the keyswitches (separate lines from the actual parts), and then when ready to record, transpose one of the parts (not the keyswitches) by a half-step and then adjust back to the correct pitch using the VI (note that the VI can adjust the pitches of the part while keeping the keyswitches correct).  That would solve any phasing problems, and give you six clarinets (2 groups of three).  However, note that it would be very unusual for an orchestra to employ 6 standard Bb clarinets.  Three is more the norm.  The standard VSL section sizes equal a fairly good-sized Romantic period orchestra.

Hello Vincent M

Just a a small addition to Noldar12's instructions:

The trick is that you play the same note (tone) but with another sample. This is correct so far.

If you are using an SE-Library you need to transpose the midi-parts one whole note up or down and correct it then on the audio side back to the normal pitch.

Why? The SE-Sample Libraries "only" come with new samples each whole note.

BTW here you can listen to and read about this "unison-trick"

Beat Kaufmann

Vincent, Beat is right.  I somehow missed that you were using SE.  For standard/full libraries it can be done by half-step, since the full libraries have chromatic samples, but as Beat says, SE is sampled by whole steps, so a whole step difference is required in order to play back a different sample.

@Vincent M said:

Thank you very much guys. But what is the difference between chromatic sample and whole note sample??? Does that mean that for the SE, the C and C# are the same notes but corrected with pitch? If yes, arghhh. That would mean that for one octave, the standard library have 12 ''unique'' sound, and the SE library only 7 real differents sounds? I suppose that it will do a BIG difference in sound quality ( i'm not talking about differents articulations )? Thank you again for your asnwers, very appreciated!

There will be no difference in sound quality. What there will be is a slight timbre difference, but whether or not that matters to you only you can say.

DG

Yes it is a slight timbre difference. I didn't buy the DVD Collections because they were chromatically sampled, I bought them because I needed the articulations that they offer. There are times when it can be noticeable, if you know in detail what the instrument sounds like at these pitches, but with the Strings library this is much less important than some of the solo instruments.

DG

The overall sound of the four SE libraries is quite good (that is what I have started with as it was the only way I could afford a full VSL sound set-orchestra).  Having started to migrate over to some full libraries bit by bit, if at all possible, full is preferred.  The chromatic samples, to me anyway, do make a slight difference (and the instruments do sound closer to "real"), but more imporant are the many additional articulations.  With the additional articulations a much better emulation of any given instrument is possible.  Particularly with strings, one can better emulate what a player can really do with a bow (as a strings player, I really notice the difference).

<edit> As a side note, one of the reasons I really appreciate VSL's strings over other company's offerings is the wide variety of bowing articulations (and offering the same articulations-with some exceptions-for each instrument).

@Vincent M said:

Is it really a ''slight'' timbre difference? I didn't see this when i bought SE and SE+. Next summer i want to buy A LOT of standard and extended library instruments. I suppose that if there where no important difference between standard and SE library people would not buy standard library ^^.

As am amateur for the last 25 years or so, I can say there's no difference. Maybe an engineer can tell the difference, but I can't. I upgraded my strings for articulations, and hope to do the same with my brass😊

Let's face it: if you are trying to get work, then buy less: buy cheap frankly as they are just tools for you, and are appreciated in the industry. If you are like me and just want to make beautiful music, it's different - I'm sure a lot of 'composers' don't use a lot of samples, they get the job done and then the orchestra takes over. For me, I want my music, what I write, to be the end of it. I'm not trying to get some famous orchestra in a famous movie to record me. I want what I write to be beautiful, as beautiful as possible as a one-man-band. That's why all of my orchestra instuments are Vienna. It gives me a fighting chance.

It's a question of priority, and if you think a famous orchestra will redo your 'demo', then go minimal for what your ear hears. If not, then upgrade.

If you think you will have a Hollywood audience, then stick to SE and learn everything you can, both musically and politically. Someone will pay your way in that case, and give you a lot of instructions...

Shawn

@Vincent M said:

Thank you shawn for your answer. I don't talk english very well so i can't express myself like i want about your post. I understand your idea but i find it a little bit illogical. You say that a person who wants to be a pro as a composer, make a living with this, ect, should buy the mininum, or not ''invest'' in really pro samples like VSL standard library?

Hi all

English isn't my mother tongue as well. So I'm in the same position as you are, Vincent.

Another point is, if you are a composer who has to write the music for a film for example and you know that the music will be played by a real orchestra it isn't necessary to fiddle around hours and hours until it sounds perfect. 

In this situation it is may be OK when you are composing the music with Sibelius and let it play in the end your piece in a more or less good quality. You will be able to show everybody "how it could sound" in the end. So I believe: This composer shouldn't lose a lot of time and money he should go on. So an SE-Library could be enough.

But our (my) aim is not to compose music which will be played by a real orchestra afterwards. No I would like to convince people of using "my technique" instead a real orchestra. This is another situation. So it comes to a situation where music may not be static neither with the tempo nor with the dynamic. I should change articulations from one to the next tone, just in reality. In such a situation I play sometimes the first part of a crescendo (4s) and change then into a legato sample - just because it sounds as I use it. In the meantime I use the X-fading function while the tempo curve has got "high hills and deep valleys". But we know it: We use a lot of hours for getting the first 80% and then 400% for reaching a final mix (99%).

So these are maybe the two situations which sample users can be involved. 

I'm just working on a famous lullaby of Switzerland "Dormabain" and because it's 24:00 in

Switzerland: here a short preview and short excerpt

(at the moment just Appassionatas, Soloviolin, some percussions and an E-Bass > a bit James Last so to say)

Have fun [;)] and good night!

Sleep well

Beat

IMO, the unison technique is credible - and essential, especially when wanting unisons between I and II violins (as there is only one set of violin samples).

Certainly the full libraries allow for greater flexibility of expression than the SE libraries.  But, the four SE libraries all told do contain what is absolutely essential.  It is worth remembering that some of the highly regarded libraries that compete with VSL offer very few articulations (LASS for one).  As for who buys SE, not everyone can afford to run a template of just the full libraries, or the computer power to run them.

As it seems that you are in the process of sorting things out, a couple questions to ask yourself might be: 1) What styles of music do you intend to write?  Then, 2) What libraries will you need in order to write in those styles?  Another thing to think about is: how much time to you intend to spend writing?  Is writing something you want to do every spare minute that you have, or only for a couple hours a week?  If only a couple hours a week, getting the full libraries might not be a real need.

Trying to answer #1 is important (to the extent that you can), as it will point you in specific directions.  For example, if you were seeking to write primarily chamber music, you would have no real need to purchase AP Strings, but rather should get either solo strings, or chamber strings (or both if you could).  Conversely, if you were most interested in writing large "Hollywood" sounding type scores, AP Strings would likely be very high on your purchase list, and chamber strings would probably be fairly low.

In addition, speaking from hard personal experience, the more you can figure out your goals in advance, the less likely you will end up spending money on libraries that in the end, you don't use (some of the first libraries that I purchased - from other companies - I now almost never use).  One advantage of the SE Libraries is that they provide a broad overview of what is possible in the world of VSL.  It is not uncommon for users to start with the SE Libraries, and then add AP Strings as their first full library purchase (not my own approach, as my main interests do not head in a "Hollywood" direction). 

Also, if you go with the SE libraries, you do get additional discounts, when purchasing extended full libraries (and download libraries as well).  If you have the budget, and know precisely what you are seeking to do, going directly to the full libraries can be a good choice.  But, for the price of a couple full libraries (standard + extended) you can purchase all four of the SE Libraries, and have a much broader range of content.  Think of the SE libraries as a type of introduction to the world of VSL.

Finally, what sort of computer power do you have or intend to get?  Much less is needed to run the SE libraries than the full ones.  The four SE libraries will run quite nicely on a Q9550 and 8 gigs of ram.  To run a bunch of the full libraries, you would really need 24 gigs of ram (one can make do with 12, but that will be a real limiting factor), and at least a good i7 with 6 ram slots (the current Sandy Bridge processors have only 4 ram slots, tri-channel Sandy Bridge are due out before the end of the year)

To conclude, for my own situation, I can only buy a couple full libraries a year, and will never be able to afford to get VSL's entire catalog of full libraries (nor could I afford the needed computer power).  While I hope, over time, to get full libraries for all the key sections, I will continue to need, and use, SE to fill in the gaps as needed.

Anyway, some things to think about.

@Vincent M said:

... But if i understand correctly, you're saying that sampler are used : 1) by seller and programmer to sell their products or 2) for composers who wants orchestra to play their compositions. And that's all? So what about ALL the people who bought standard library with extended stocks? Who are they? Maybe i underestimate the SE and SE +. These days i have the impression that i need ABSOLUTELY the standard editions with extended to FULLY express myself....

Who are they all? They are faszinated people who own an Orchestra with these samples which is able to play all you want... as fast as you like, as modern as you want etc. This Orchestra plays at 03:00 AM, it is never tired and further it never plays unclear or bad notes...

When time has come that you get more and more a "master of the samples" you are more and more obsessed with the virtual orchestra... = more and more Full Libraries

The SE-Library (ies)

I remember the time when SE was published. The users who had payed a lot of money for 2 or 3 full libraries and for just one instrument where very angry because one could buy now for the money of one full library a huge amount of instruments including the valuable "Performance Legato" for most of the instruments... And that's the point until today with the SE. You have quit a lot of insruments and for all of them the most important samples! So the SE-Libraies are worth every cent for sure. 

I believe that I could produce a very good sounding orchestra with the amount of articulations of the SE-Libray. Though, for an orchestra "as close to the reality as possible" you need more than 4 different articultions per instrument that's clear as well.

So, if your main instruments are the Strings you could buy on full String Library and use the SE-Library with the huge amount of instruments for the rest...

Beat

@Vincent M said:

[...] That sound so real! Actual movies productors NEVER use VSL? [...]

Oh yes, they do. Looking at VSL's customer list, I would say: Actually many of them. 😊