Building an ensemble from a load of violin solos doesn't work, and trying to do it from the same violin sample would be just a waste of time IMO. Leaving aside all the phasing issues, there is something about the sound of all the players playing at the same time that can't (yet) be re-created by separate players added together.

Audio Impressions tried to do this by recording violins in pairs, seated in a standard orchestra seating and with all different players and instruments, and even that didn't work. I'm sure that in time there will be some sort of modelling that may be able to create this "all together" effect, but it doesn't exist at the moment.

DG

For 6 clarinets, I would do what I suggested above.  Write out both parts (3+3), do all the keyswitches (separate lines from the actual parts), and then when ready to record, transpose one of the parts (not the keyswitches) by a half-step and then adjust back to the correct pitch using the VI (note that the VI can adjust the pitches of the part while keeping the keyswitches correct).  That would solve any phasing problems, and give you six clarinets (2 groups of three).  However, note that it would be very unusual for an orchestra to employ 6 standard Bb clarinets.  Three is more the norm.  The standard VSL section sizes equal a fairly good-sized Romantic period orchestra.

and if you revert the phase(you can do that in Logic)  on the second instrument ? should not that fix the problem ?

I guess they'd rather null in this case. On the other hand if you transpose the original part up and down and then invert the phase... I don't know then.

Normally you do not need to transpose up and down, you need just to invert ths phase

@noldar12 said:

For 6 clarinets, I would do what I suggested above.  Write out both parts (3+3), do all the keyswitches (separate lines from the actual parts), and then when ready to record, transpose one of the parts (not the keyswitches) by a half-step and then adjust back to the correct pitch using the VI (note that the VI can adjust the pitches of the part while keeping the keyswitches correct).  That would solve any phasing problems, and give you six clarinets (2 groups of three).  However, note that it would be very unusual for an orchestra to employ 6 standard Bb clarinets.  Three is more the norm.  The standard VSL section sizes equal a fairly good-sized Romantic period orchestra.

Hello Vincent M

Just a a small addition to Noldar12's instructions:

The trick is that you play the same note (tone) but with another sample. This is correct so far.

If you are using an SE-Library you need to transpose the midi-parts one whole note up or down and correct it then on the audio side back to the normal pitch.

Why? The SE-Sample Libraries "only" come with new samples each whole note.

BTW here you can listen to and read about this "unison-trick"

Beat Kaufmann

Vincent, Beat is right.  I somehow missed that you were using SE.  For standard/full libraries it can be done by half-step, since the full libraries have chromatic samples, but as Beat says, SE is sampled by whole steps, so a whole step difference is required in order to play back a different sample.

@Vincent M said:

Thank you very much guys. But what is the difference between chromatic sample and whole note sample??? Does that mean that for the SE, the C and C# are the same notes but corrected with pitch? If yes, arghhh. That would mean that for one octave, the standard library have 12 ''unique'' sound, and the SE library only 7 real differents sounds? I suppose that it will do a BIG difference in sound quality ( i'm not talking about differents articulations )? Thank you again for your asnwers, very appreciated!

There will be no difference in sound quality. What there will be is a slight timbre difference, but whether or not that matters to you only you can say.

DG

Yes it is a slight timbre difference. I didn't buy the DVD Collections because they were chromatically sampled, I bought them because I needed the articulations that they offer. There are times when it can be noticeable, if you know in detail what the instrument sounds like at these pitches, but with the Strings library this is much less important than some of the solo instruments.

DG

The overall sound of the four SE libraries is quite good (that is what I have started with as it was the only way I could afford a full VSL sound set-orchestra).  Having started to migrate over to some full libraries bit by bit, if at all possible, full is preferred.  The chromatic samples, to me anyway, do make a slight difference (and the instruments do sound closer to "real"), but more imporant are the many additional articulations.  With the additional articulations a much better emulation of any given instrument is possible.  Particularly with strings, one can better emulate what a player can really do with a bow (as a strings player, I really notice the difference).

<edit> As a side note, one of the reasons I really appreciate VSL's strings over other company's offerings is the wide variety of bowing articulations (and offering the same articulations-with some exceptions-for each instrument).

@Vincent M said:

Is it really a ''slight'' timbre difference? I didn't see this when i bought SE and SE+. Next summer i want to buy A LOT of standard and extended library instruments. I suppose that if there where no important difference between standard and SE library people would not buy standard library ^^.

As am amateur for the last 25 years or so, I can say there's no difference. Maybe an engineer can tell the difference, but I can't. I upgraded my strings for articulations, and hope to do the same with my brass😊

Let's face it: if you are trying to get work, then buy less: buy cheap frankly as they are just tools for you, and are appreciated in the industry. If you are like me and just want to make beautiful music, it's different - I'm sure a lot of 'composers' don't use a lot of samples, they get the job done and then the orchestra takes over. For me, I want my music, what I write, to be the end of it. I'm not trying to get some famous orchestra in a famous movie to record me. I want what I write to be beautiful, as beautiful as possible as a one-man-band. That's why all of my orchestra instuments are Vienna. It gives me a fighting chance.

It's a question of priority, and if you think a famous orchestra will redo your 'demo', then go minimal for what your ear hears. If not, then upgrade.

If you think you will have a Hollywood audience, then stick to SE and learn everything you can, both musically and politically. Someone will pay your way in that case, and give you a lot of instructions...

Shawn

@Vincent M said:

Thank you shawn for your answer. I don't talk english very well so i can't express myself like i want about your post. I understand your idea but i find it a little bit illogical. You say that a person who wants to be a pro as a composer, make a living with this, ect, should buy the mininum, or not ''invest'' in really pro samples like VSL standard library?

Hi all

English isn't my mother tongue as well. So I'm in the same position as you are, Vincent.

Another point is, if you are a composer who has to write the music for a film for example and you know that the music will be played by a real orchestra it isn't necessary to fiddle around hours and hours until it sounds perfect. 

In this situation it is may be OK when you are composing the music with Sibelius and let it play in the end your piece in a more or less good quality. You will be able to show everybody "how it could sound" in the end. So I believe: This composer shouldn't lose a lot of time and money he should go on. So an SE-Library could be enough.

But our (my) aim is not to compose music which will be played by a real orchestra afterwards. No I would like to convince people of using "my technique" instead a real orchestra. This is another situation. So it comes to a situation where music may not be static neither with the tempo nor with the dynamic. I should change articulations from one to the next tone, just in reality. In such a situation I play sometimes the first part of a crescendo (4s) and change then into a legato sample - just because it sounds as I use it. In the meantime I use the X-fading function while the tempo curve has got "high hills and deep valleys". But we know it: We use a lot of hours for getting the first 80% and then 400% for reaching a final mix (99%).

So these are maybe the two situations which sample users can be involved. 

I'm just working on a famous lullaby of Switzerland "Dormabain" and because it's 24:00 in

Switzerland: here a short preview and short excerpt

(at the moment just Appassionatas, Soloviolin, some percussions and an E-Bass > a bit James Last so to say)

Have fun [;)] and good night!

Sleep well

Beat