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I saw but forgot to mention it in my post. I do realize that many use notation.
As a compositional tool, notation has suffered in this area... at least in relationship to using VSL or other complex sample libraries. Now that I've got this in my head, I don't think I'll be happy until it happens. Give me a VE Daw and a Divisi Library and I'll never leave my computer again! lol
-Sean
@bogdan said:
Knowing the quality of this company, I would even pay in advance for such a feature, and I 'm talking seriously here.
Same here. I'm poor right now but I'd sell half the crap I own to pay in advance for it. I'd practically give up my right arm for it... lol
-Sean
@Errikos said:
For the record I actually said that most people do use traditional and sophisticated notation software, especially at the high and mid-high end of the industry - as well as some of us at the other end of the spectrum
Oh, I stand corrected! I've read your post again, for some reason I thought you said the opposite.
Well, if this is a valid encouragement, I would also buy VSL notation software, even in advance! Actually, this software could even cause me to drop my other libraries and migrate for VSL entirely.
@Tralen said:
Actually, this software could even cause me to drop my other libraries and migrate for VSL entirely.
After what we've been currently saying, and after reading this... I think we can all safely say that we are in agreement on this point. We want it, and bad- bad enough that we may call it one of the most essential tools we could want.
'And VSL saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.' lol, that's about how I'd react to this software. I'd start trying to push VSL on those I know like a religion. And just like the Internet, it would reach a point where I'd ask "How did I even live my life before this happened?" lol (I ask this now, owning VSL and looking back at the sounds I once used...cringe....ugh!)
-Sean
I think for the sake of our discussion and who knows maybe we can get some results from it, a new thread must be created to encourage people to sign in for this program to be started( maybe I'm dreaming with eyes wide open:)). Talking from this Sibelius 7 perspective some of the users maybe are not tempted ..at least Notion users or Finale ..or maybe they are.. I don't know..but a fresh thread and one that clearly asking for vsl notation maybe gets more attention.
At least people from VSL will laugh or they 're gona take us seriously !!;))
@bogdan said:
I think for the sake of our discussion and who knows maybe we can get some results from it, a new thread must be created to encourage people to sign in for this program to be started... a fresh thread and one that clearly asking for vsl notation maybe gets more attention.
At least people from VSL will laugh or they 're gona take us seriously !!;))
Well, even if not to 'rally support', lol - I figure we can at least get more ideas or feature requests that in the end might help us. Ideally I would love the notation bit being the main focus... but with any feature request, it's easy to veer off-topic... SO, I created a new thread for this and made it as all-inclusive to a VSL DAW idea as possible. I also brought up the points we posted here for reference (and another divisi one I really like).
I posted "VSL DAW anyone?" under the Vienna Ensemble forum as I felt it would get more feedback there (more users), despite it really being approprate in both forums.
Hopefully if we continue this there and get more users something great can come of this. If I think of any other daw features I would like specifically useful for VSL, I'll add them as well. I think this way we can 1) make it more likely to happen but 2) make this big 'feature request' as applicable to all users (also making it more likely to happen).
-Sean
P.S. I hope no one minds me taking the liberty to post this. I wanted to happen just as much, so I just did it. [;)]
Remember also that it took them 2 whole years to release this new version, what the heck took so long to program? The Microsoft toolbar? Was it the recording of that great Sibelius orchestra?.. I mean we're stuck with this for another 2 years probably!.. Have you thought of that? Although I have always stayed away from Finale, I hope they revolutionize the industry with their next release - it's their chance to break the stale-mate now.
@Errikos said:
what the heck took so long to program? The Microsoft toolbar?
Agreed! And I'm someone who welcomes this change. I simply realize, with how MS developed the ribbon, that the interface is already built for them for the most part. Most 'programming' is already done for them. This in every respect was a rip off upgrade, with only one exception to me, 64 bit.
Hopeully with Sibelius 8 they get their act together. I'm not a Finale fan personally.
-Sean
Hopeully with Sibelius 8 they get their act together. I'm not a Finale fan personally.
-Sean
Me neither but audio feedback is so important to me that if Finale moves seriously ahead in that department I'll be switching despite the learning curve. Sibelius 8 will probably take as long as it took the real Sibelius [;)]
Does anybody have feedback on how is Sibelius 7 working with VSL libraries? I ordered the upgrade (which hasn't arrived yet) because it's 64-bit. While Sibelius worked pretty well with the smaller SE, I found VSL + Sibelius increasingly unreliable as I moved to the full libraries. IMO, being able to load more comprehensive sample sets would make this upgrade very useful even absent any other improvements.
(Yes, better still would be a notation program that only loaded the samples you needed ...)
Hi,
Speaking of notation software in relationship to the VSL libraries, I notice that one specific program has been not introduced here: I am talking about Overture (4.1.5), made by Geniesoft.
In Windows XP, 32 bit, it serves like a VST host as well as notation software. Loading VI or VE into the VST rack is just a breeze. Apart from its capabilities as notation package it offers also precise and easy MIDI editing per track. Tempo adjustments can be made easily, there is also some tempo tapping issue, which works better than the odd Sibelius implementation.
Users can make their own 'expression' file, a very easy way to set up whatever keyswitch or CC controller (even combined!!) related to whatever articulation. This means for example that you can point an expression as 'a2' to a non divisi patch and 'solo' to a divisi patch. Simple as that and....much easier than the sound editor of Sibelius.
The GUI looks a little old fashioned maybe, but offers a very intuitive way of handling things. There isn't hardly any learning curve (like in Finale, Sibelius and also Notion).
So, for
a combination of notation and MIDI editing this a really a fine piece
of software IMHO. It doesn't have that glossy GUI of Sibelius, the
prints are not so sublime also, but it feels a bit like heaven after
years of frustration being able with only the TAB key to switch between scoring and MIDI-editing (there is also a nice piano roll window).
If I need a beautiful score I still use the Sibelius (I quitted Encore and Finale years ago already), or idem when I make a quick arrangement for one my ensembles for example. For very elaborated MIDI editing only, possibly combined with audio material I use a DAW like Cubase 6 (with its groundbreaking Expression Map 2, which surpasses version 1 in all respects). Sonar has neglected its MIDI users for years now, so it won't help you much further.
To be honest: working in Windows 7 (64 bit), there is some 'funny' issue to be mentioned using Overture (still 32 bit): it doesn't show any audio device and hence it refuses to select a VST folder.
So, actually this gives a new situation in which you can use your DAW or VST host (as Cantabile) directly with Overture, of course with a correct virtual midi in and out cabling.
There are rumours that a Overture 5 version will presented, in which this issue will be resolved maybe. Don't count on it however and just use the setup as described.
Shortly: readers of this post: why not give this a try? As long as Sibelius (and again also in this rather disappointing version 7), Finale and Notion don't offer a easy, decent and extended way of handling MIDI editing, it doesn't make sense to wait for another decennium. Admitted, there may be some issues that could make you return back to what you use now (just visit the forum on the Overture site and see what is going on there).Of course, also Overture isn't perfect, but the first perfect piece of music software has to be written yet, isn't it?
Personally, I think that VSL isn't going to produce any notation software in the (next) future. I would prefer actually, that the core activities remain focussed on sampling, sampler and sound. There is still some room for improvement*. So I am eagerly waiting for VI PRO 2 and MIR PRO by the way.Please note: I am not against the idea of a special new notation program of course in which VSL products will shine.
I hope that this post will inspire people to look further than what is well-known. Maybe superfluously, I don't have any relationship with whatever software producing company.
Best,
Erik
* It is
not the right place for this topic, but here is my feature request in
VI PRO2: randomizing EQ possibilities per cell (just as in real life). How about that?
Erik,
I installed a demo not too long ago and found nothing but problems. I found it's workflow and yes, it's gui, not to my liking. It has some good concepts, good ideas, etc. but it doesn't seem well built to me (at least, not enough to be a real player against the others).
I just found some posts on the Notion boards, from a moderator, saying that Notion hasn't been abandoned at all, but that they slowed development while they crank out an ipad app- that they would return to it afterward. With the release of a recent update 3.2, I am hoping that we'll see a Notion4 coming sometime. This could address what some of us have been concerned about. Just a thought anyway...
-Sean
Hi Sean,
Sorry to hear about those problems. Maybe is the demo version not always up to date, I don't know. I only had some stability issues sometimes in the XP (32bit) surrounding.
However, maybe Notion 4 will be of some importance: Notion 3 has many fine features, but it will be a long way towards what is at stake here, in my opinion.
Erik
Well I tried Sibelius 7, and well, theres some things I did like, but the sound was just the same as Sibelius 6 and I was not too thrilled. I guess if you compose music for games it is useful, but I try to compose for a real orchestra. I went back to Notion 3 using VSL for now. Hopefully when Notion 4 is released it will be more intuitive and have a great interface. I am not soo pleased with Sibelius 7, I feel like it was a bit watered down with added features.
@Jgcomposer said:
Well I tried Sibelius 7, and well, theres some things I did like, but the sound was just the same as Sibelius 6 and I was not too thrilled. I guess if you compose music for games it is useful, but I try to compose for a real orchestra. I went back to Notion 3 using VSL for now. Hopefully when Notion 4 is released it will be more intuitive and have a great interface. I am not soo pleased with Sibelius 7, I feel like it was a bit watered down with added features.
How can something be watered down, if it has added features? That just makes no sense.
DG
There is really nothing about it that made no sense DG. I'm basically saying that Sibelius 7 had some new features that seemed water down to me. If you still don't get it don't bother making an arguement. Nothing really to dwell upon when I am just making my own assumption about the software.
