@garylionelli said:

I don't agree with that. Listen to some wobbly old grainy and harsh string recordings from 60 years ago or more, and the performance shines over the bad tone. The emotion is conveyed by the performance. As far as LASS is concerned, you can work wonders with LASS and the proper EQ for each section. However, I didn't enter this thread to debate tone vs. performance, it's apples and oranges as far as what I was saying re legato variability. I simply would like new VSL strings with better legato. 

 "tone" ?  I am not talking about audio quality particularly, I am talking about the extremely complex nature of recorded strings and especially what happens to strings when they are turned into samples.  This is a combination of the quality of recording equipment, the venue in which the recording was made, the post production quality, the methods used in programming samples, AND the quality of the performance involved in the recording.  All of these come together to produce some really horrible sounds with certain libraries - like the old Garritan string library.  Remember that?  I wasted a thousand bucks on that thing.  I never used it once in any mix.  Or think of Miroslav Vitous.  Beautiful playing and recording but about six samples per instrument stretched all over the range in one velocity layer.  But with the Mirosalv, the basic sound was very good and as a result it could be used in a certain cleverly limited way. 

However, all string libraries in the past suffered from the artificiality of the most audible sound, the sound that people sitting in a movie theater or watching a DVD notice and are bombarded by far more than variations in legato connections  -  the sustaining, long-held note.  The legato is of course essential to avoid spliced-together sustains - something I am all too painfully aware of - but the variations between legato are far less significant in a final mix than the quality of recording/musicality/programming which is an extremely complex Gestalt that either sounds good or horrific.  So that is what I am talking about when I hear sweeping statements like "it's totally uselsss without the exact legato speed"   which is absurd. 

I disagree. Over and out.

Competing with HS?

EWQL moved their studio to Hollywood to make us believe the term "Hollywood Strings" equals Hollywood.

Does it mean Vienna should move their studio to ... Vienna to perform a similar trick? They are already there. It's EWQL who are catching up.

@el-russo said:

Competing with HS?

EWQL moved their studio to Hollywood to make us believe the term "Hollywood Strings" equals Hollywood.

Does it mean Vienna should move their studio to ... Vienna to perform a similar trick? They are already there. It's EWQL who are catching up.

That is exactly what I was thinking when I read this thread - the real question is how will the other string libraries compete with VSL?

So far the others are emphasizing the few things that VSL did not emphasize, mainly divisi.  So in other words they don't compete, but try to do something else.  If VSL creates a divisi supplement to Appassionata strings, it will eliminate that niche-marketing. The divisi could also address the multiple legato speeds that were being discussed.  One of the most desirable additions would be the ability to connect notes in several different unison lines with different recorded legatos that had slight variations in speed.   

That's a good way of clearing up this discussion :) ! I agree. They don't compete how can they!? But divisi is something that would take VSL to another level altogether in my opinion than where it already is. In fact, I would go so far as to say it's essential as the next step, again, only in my humble opinion. :)

The BIG question is ...

Will VSL develop some NEW strings that will expand, and complement their current line of Strings Libraries ?  

I hope the answer is YES .

How about it VSL guys, can we get a "yay" or a "nay" on a dimension strings with divisi sections in both mute and unmuted with all the articulations of the orchestral strings, in the style of appassionata libraries!!! 

I don't think it's too much of a tall order!! You can probably knock that over in a weekend!  [:P]

Seriously though I think it would take VSL to the next level... a whole new ball park so to speak.

Since I don't trust using Vienna around for fear of losing my key again, I'm looking for new libraries, something like the Special Edition bu with no dongles. Does HS use dongles?

Cesare

Well why don't you sell your tv, all your studio equipment, your fridge, and everything else you own since that too may be stolen and you won't get it back. Or you could get insurance on your house and business contents and then if it gets stolen you will get money to replace it...

The Vienna key is a license stored on a physical key, therefore it's a physical item, like your keyboard, or your computer. You don't go complaining to Apple or Dell if your computer is stolen as though they are obligated to replace it, so it is with the vienna key. It's like a diamond ring: small but still valuable!

One thing that continues to amaze me in these types of threads is a seemingly unspoken but underlying assumption that products with "Hollywood" or "Cine" = good, while products that emulate a traditional orchestra = bad.  As stated before, having played classical double-bass, VSL comes as close to what I actually do (with the bow in particular).  There are reasons - as was mentioned earlier in the thread - why HS does not include mock-ups of Vivaldi, Mozart, and similar styles.

VSL reminds me very much of what participating in an orchestra actually sounded like.  There simply is far more to the orchestral world than that trademark "Hollywood" sound.  Side note: what will happen when popular tastes change, and the lush Hollywood sound is no longer "in"?

@noldar12 said:

One thing that continues to amaze me in these types of threads is a seemingly unspoken but underlying assumption that products with "Hollywood" or "Cine" = good, while products that emulate a traditional orchestra = bad.  As stated before, having played classical double-bass, VSL comes as close to what I actually do (with the bow in particular).  There are reasons - as was mentioned earlier in the thread - why HS does not include mock-ups of Vivaldi, Mozart, and similar styles.

Agree.

Some libs may have thicker sounds out of the box and on a on a very limited comparison it can give an impression of superiority, but I'd say the same way one will say: I prefer this girl because she has bigger boobs: Hollywood boobs!

Did someone say "girl"...."Hollywood".... Guy, you work too hard!....here's the way to do it:

I guess working in Hollywood for too long leads to irreversible changes in one's mind, setting it on squeezing money out of everything that moves.

@synergy543 said:

Did someone say "girl"...."Hollywood".... Guy, you work too hard!....here's the way to do it:

brought to you by none other than Hans himself.

a good way to work ! Thank you ! Life is easier now ........... ! [H][;)]

@Another User said:

 There are reasons - as was mentioned earlier in the thread - why HS does not include mock-ups of Vivaldi, Mozart, and similar styles.  

Actually HS does have a vivaldi demo up.  I just don't agree that VSL sounds more like a real orchestra than the other libraries available, at least not the strings I've heard.  But that's always going to be a matter of opinion.

Ok, you believe cine brass sounds better, it's your view. So what's your point besides that?.

to be honest, the best string library I've ever heard is the fairly unknown Spiritoso Live Cellos by Zero G:

http://www.timespace.com/product/SPIR-326/Zero-G%20Spiritoso:%20Live%20Cello%20Phrases.html

If you hear the demos you'll see what I mean.  Just because I produced this library myself and therefore will directly earn money from any of you that buy it, I am in no way biased.

;)

I should add: it only sounds truly great when blended with VSL strings.

@synergy543 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPW6fKiilIc&feature=related

Apparently brought to you by none other than Hans himself.

- "I've been a composer all my life" [:P][W][li][+o(][+o(][+o(]

This year's nominees for best o r i g i n a l (sic!!) score are: UJAM (with "melody" by Hans), UJAM (with "melody" by Trevor), UJAM (on its own),  and Ennio Morricone.

And the Oscar goes to...... UJAM!! 

P.S.: It would be great to see a thread where people would discuss actual adequate 'string-writing' and its subtleties, with as much attention to detail as they do when they discuss timbre/realism etc. Who cares whether you have the real Vienna Philharmonic in front of you if you have only composed pads and semiquaver-drones... 

(Certainly not the MORON directors/producers and their pathetic music supervisors who can't tell the difference between genuine invention and a computer algorithm, and keep paying the bluffers of this world untold millions for their mouse-riding skills)

Do you think it's very respectful advertising Spiritoso on the VSL forum? Personally I would have no use for such library, using bits of phrases. It wouldn't take too long before you are repeating the same phrases over and over, even though they sound good.

@Guy Bacos said:

Ok, you believe cine brass sounds better, it's your view. So what's your point besides that?.

Besides that, my point is that I think people are assuming that other libraries are only good for one style based on product names.