I DID blunder upon a way to do precise editing of track automation in Logic 9.1.3.  Select a track and then press CMD-Cntrl-E and a window will pop up similar to the event editor for midi notes and CCs.  Just as with CCs you can pinpoint where you want an automation value to change.  In this way you can precisely automate faders in VE Pro (specifying measure, beat, and so on, just as you do with notes and CCs).  Before using this technique, I first do a rough assignment using click-drag in the drop down window in the track header (the window that initially says "Volume" on the left hand side of the Arrange window that lists the tracks).  In the drop down window, you will then find a reference to Vienna Ensemb, continue to hold-click and a LONG list of items that can be controlled in VE Pro will appear to the right.  Once you have done this you will have a reference to the particular automation control that is listed in the Cmd-Cntrl-E window, then use the Cmd-Cntrl-E technique described above.

You will find this discussed in Logic Help-Logic Pro 9 User Manual-Editing Track Automation Data in the Event List.  That Cmd-Cntrl sequence brings up this special type of Event list.

This technique worked for me for VI Pro instances within VE Pro.  Each VI Pro instance within VE Pro was assigned a separate channel and separate port (e.g., VE Pro Plug in Midi 1 In, Channel 2 at the top of faders in the Mixer) I did not try automation of Kontakt 2.2 (which I have also instanced in VE Pro).

So I am no longer am of the view that track automation is sloppy; it is just as time consuming as are CCs when you want to do a precision edit.

Steve

BenjaminCS --

Just so we share a common understanding on this point (since I am now using Region-based CCs to control VI Pro instances within VE Pro) --

At present, with Logic 9.1.3, one CAN Track automate the various CC based settings within a VI Pro instance, if one sets up the VE Pro template where VE Pro becomes a multi-timbral External Midi instrument.  This process is described in detail in a tutorial referenced in the thread "NEW Orchestral Templates:  Ve PRO and Logic Pro 9"; http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/27828.aspx.  The PROBLEM I have with that external Midi set up is that in order to use the Midi Event List editor for precise edits (on the right of the Arrange window), is that you must call up a special Midi Event List with the key command Cmd-Cntrl-E.  Here are the problems with that window:  (1) it is not reliable, you must close and re-open that window to see the changes made, and it does not always reliably show the correct track.  There is some kind of bug present.  (2) that special Midi Event List window showing Fader commands, does NOT place them within the other Midi events, such as Notes -- you see only Fader events.  By contrast, if you are using CCs to control VI Pro instances (as I now do), and you have the regular Midi Event List window open, the CC change is IMMEDIATELY reflected (without the necessity of reopening the window), and the new event is placed within OTHER events in the Region, such as Notes and other CC changes.  You can still enter CCs graphically within Logic by opening the Piano Roll window and opening a so-called Hyper-Draw window within it.  Once there, you can select channel and CC number you wish to control.  I frankly do not find this drawing window as easy to use as the Track Automation windows the open up in Logic -- where you see all tracks with selected automation at once.

I know you mentioned you are a Cubase user, but I am putting all this Logic stuff down to show other Logic users my experience -- and maybe get some suggestions about how to work with Logic!  :)  I am going to test out the alternative External Midi approach I referenced to see how easy (or difficult) it is to enter CC information using Automation Tracks instead of Region-based Midi editors like Piano Roll and Midi Event List.

Steve

@Another User said:

2) very often, groups of sliders on keyboards/control surfaces have the same CCs with different midi channels to save CC numbers. So if the slider you want to assign is CC#105 Channel#7 and you have assigned VST instruments to different midi channels in VE Pro (the usual way to separate instruments in VE Pro) then your slider won't get through to your VSTi unless it's on channel 7. This creates completely unnecessary headaches for no good reason, because channels have to be used in 2 unrelated ways only to have enough CCs available.

The issue of automation not available in VE Pro at this time is another matter, ie., there is no write button for plugins populating VE Pro.

@patlagoon said:

For example will I be able to automate parameters of an EQ inserted in a VE Pro's channel using Write automation from Cubase ?

I hope this is the case. Anyway, bump as this is an important consideration to me, it will dramatically simplify my workflow.

@patlagoon said:

BTW, any idea of the release date of this update ?

Members of the VSL team mentioned that the "big update" which should contain automation, among other things, is scheduled for "this summer", so pretty soon hopefully.

Being able to add cc automation to VE Pro volume sliders would be extremely useful.  Right now, if you load up a multi through Kontakt and set it as a single channel in VE Pro, there's really no way to automate the volume of that full multi within Logic using midi CC's.  Yes, you can assign a midi CC to each track within the multi, but in some cases you may want varying volume levels for each component of the multi, in which case assigning a midi CC to each one wouldn't be a good idea.

I almost DREAD this coming update to VE Pro.  First, we will have new commands and techniques to learn; I am sure they will ease the workflow and provide new techniques WITHIN VE Pro.  But then there is the effect these VE Pro changes have on Logic 9.1.4 (the latest version at this writing), and Kontakt 4.2.3.4914 (Ibid).  And the changes are exponential in effect:  2 changes for VE Pro (say) affect 3 settings in Logic Pro (say) = 6 new settings to learn, etc.

One almost wishes for an Apple solution:  vertical integration of the entire process where one company makes all the constituent parts.  Right now we are using the Windows model, where each manufacturer must confirm compatibility with a host of hosts, as it were.

BTW, I no longer use CC#3 for the vertical component of VI Pro matrices.  Instead, I use CC#4, because that CC# appears on the pop-up window in the Hyperdraw subwindow of the Piano Roll (small square at the bottom left of Piano Roll), saving me an extra pop-up trip to the "Other" selection where I finally reach CC#3.

@Steve_DC said:

One almost wishes for an Apple solution:  vertical integration of the entire process where one company makes all the constituent parts.  Right now we are using the Windows model, where each manufacturer must confirm compatibility with a host of hosts, as it were.