Both [URL=http://community.vsl.co.at/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=164]ChrisKard[/URL] and I were (actually are) involved into a pretty famous Vienniese Electronica-project, which is crossing the boarder between western and oriental music a lot. Chris did the arrangements for jazz brass and a small Turkish string ensemble and conducted them on stage (with about 10 other musicians), while I recorded the concerts and mixed the 50+ tracks for the album-release.

As the stage was _very_ crowded, the string-tracks weren't always usable on their own. Chris doubled the typical oriental slurs and bends and quarter-tone-lines with VSL-ensemble-strings, and nobody complained. :-]

e.g. -> http://www.couchrecords.com/couch.html -> Releases -> dZihan & Kamien Orchestra: "Live in Vienna" -> Tr. 03 "Just U And I" (Flash doesn't allow for direct links, sorry)

So - with some thoughfull programming, our strings should fit to the task, I'd say.

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

@William said:

"I've never heard a decently programmed violin solo from any library" - DG

Gee whiz, VSL Solo Strings is not even decently programmed? And I thought it was awesome...

I'm comparing it with the undoubted success of many of the other instruments. The problem with solo strings is the huge change of timbre that often occurs during the length of only one note, never mind a passage. In order to be really successful (IMO) there would have to be so many controllers that I don't see that it is really possible at the moment. Point me in the direction of someone who has programmed a demo where the solo violin sounds "real" and I'll take back what I said...!

thank you Mr. Dietz,
awesome demo.thats what i am looking for, but , to make up my mind i would like to hear "only" library parts , without real musicians.do you have similar demos? lets say turkish demos?

For oriental parts you should use a lot glissandi and portamento strings i think...

"Point me in the direction of someone who has programmed a demo where the solo violin sounds "real" and I'll take back what I said...!" - DG

Sure. All of them.

Take it back now.

Of course I realize that anything I point out will not sound "real" to you because of the negative attitude expressed in your statement. "Real" can be defined in any way, and it is completely subjective. So if you wish, you can say "no, that doesn't sound real. No, that doesn't either. Nope - none of them do. In fact, this real violin recording doesn't sound real. What's happening? Nonthing's real to me anymore... aaaahhhh!"

@William said:

"Point me in the direction of someone who has programmed a demo where the solo violin sounds "real" and I'll take back what I said...!" - DG

Sure. All of them.

Take it back now.

Of course I realize that anything I point out will not sound "real" to you because of the negative attitude expressed in your statement. "Real" can be defined in any way, and it is completely subjective. So if you wish, you can say "no, that doesn't sound real. No, that doesn't either. Nope - none of them do. In fact, this real violin recording doesn't sound real. What's happening? Nonthing's real to me anymore... aaaahhhh!"

I'm sorry that you think I have a negative attitude. I think that the mere fact that I have just spent £3000 on the VSL should convince you that I don't. All I was trying to point out was that the solo violin is probably one of the least successful of those instruments which I have tried out. I fully understand that my definition of "real" will be very different to someone else's, and that there is no right and wrong, black and white, blah, blah, blah.... I shall now go back and hibernate in my cosy little hovel and refrain from offering any advice to anyone ever again [:(]

@ouzo said:

thank you Mr. Dietz,
awesome demo.thats what i am looking for, but , to make up my mind i would like to hear "only" library parts , without real musicians.do you have similar demos? lets say turkish demos?

(... uhhmm - just to avoid any confusion: actually that's a full-blown, nicely selling production, not a demo in any sense of the word) ... Sorry, I don't happen to have single tracks at hand.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

oops.demo is definitely the wrong word. sorry for that [:)]

@DG said:

I'm sorry that you think I have a negative attitude. I think that the mere fact that I have just spent £3000 on the VSL should convince you that I don't. All I was trying to point out was that the solo violin is probably one of the least successful of those instruments which I have tried out. I fully understand that my definition of "real" will be very different to someone else's, and that there is no right and wrong, black and white, blah, blah, blah.... I shall now go back and hibernate in my cosy little hovel and refrain from offering any advice to anyone ever again [:(]

This reminds me of another older thread. Are you using the solo violin which is part of the pro edition or the horizon solo violin?

@mathis said:

This reminds me of another older thread. Are you using the solo violin which is part of the pro edition or the horizon solo violin?

I checked out the Pro Edition one; I don't have Horizon.

Aha, as far as I´m informed, the solo strings in the pro edition are reduced versions. They´re meant only for enhancing and embelleshing (doubling) section strings. For a full set of articulations (means for really solo performance) one has to go for the horizon solo strings. Right?

DG

I don't want you to go away, I've personally liked your posts. I just think the solo violin in the Horizon series is incredibly good. Also the other solo instruments.

the solo strings in the pro edition are reduced in the sense that they only constist of violin and cello - no reduction on the amount of articulations.
the cello and double bass can be found in the solo strings from the horizon series though
christian

Ah, I confused it with the update DVD:

@herb said:

The reason why the soloviolin is placed in the update DVD is, that some users asked for the option to layer the ensemble violins with our soloviolin.
Therefore I chose this espressivo patch, because it enables really good result to achieve expression.

best
Herb

@William said:

DG

I don't want you to go away

Oh alright then, I'll stick around for a bit... [H]

I hope so! :-]

/Dietz

I think William's point is valid. You can have a gazillion samples of various articulations related to the solo violin - but unless you're willing to massage the expression & dynamics and also willing to engage in programming for hours to achieve a somewhat realistic 3 bar solo violin passage - you're probably not going to get something that can fool the experts. So the issue seems to be how much time are you willing to put into a 20-30 second passage? Because I thought part of the reason for VSL and performance tool was to SAVE time.

Frederick Russ
www.sanctusangelis.com

I agree with that Frederick. and what I notice about the solo violin samples for example, are the huge possibilities of working with them, because there are so many samples, and so many ways of controlling them in midi. On my Allegro for Violin and Piano, I only did a basic version. There are so many things that could be changed, with alternate samples, articulations, etc. that it is almost endless. And sheer laziness on the composer/performer's part starts to enter into it. How far are you willing to go, and how long to work, to perfect something? Though the fact that there is a sample library with so many possibilites, and you have that luxury of choices, is really wonderful.

I play guitare since a long time ( more than 20 years ) and I'm sure I'll never hear a sampled guitar wich will be enough real and it's certainly the same thing for a violonist, pianist etc ...

but I love using sample for composition and the realism is enough for me, samples are very good tools for composition ( no need of session studio musician, no need recording and premix ).

that's the place of samples for me and I'm happy from the result of the horizon violin ( euh ... it takes time to make a complete track [:)] )

Roughly same as William and Frederick...

I personally think the Solo Violin is amazing. In fact, if you write a truly idiomatic passage for it, and change articulations frequently, it's almost unbelievable. I'm using it right now just for composition. I've got a little Max/MSP patch that does some interpretation for me, and I run from Finale on a Mac through to VSL on a Giga PC. Even just with this composition setup I'm finding the Solo Strings to be very impressive. I think you just have to be very carefull in the sample choices you make. For example, I'm finding that there are many times when I'll use a "prog-vib" or "port 0'5s" sample in place of what might otherwise just be "ord". This gives the line some shape, and varies the sample selection, making it harder to recognize direct repetitions of a particular sample. Anyway, if you take some time to create an all-round instrument, with all the articulations you think you might want to use, then it doesn't even have to take a great deal of "programming" during the composition process -- just the occasional test of a couple of different possible articulations, and go with the one you prefer. I'm very happy with them. In fact, I'm pretty sure that in the right instrumental setting, and with some careful composition, I could fool a great many people into thinking the VSL Solo Violin was the real thing!

J.