Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
Forum Statistics

194,283 users have contributed to 42,914 threads and 257,948 posts.

In the past 24 hours, we have 2 new thread(s), 17 new post(s) and 86 new user(s).

  1. Home
  2. Software
  3. Vienna MIR & Vienna Suite
  4. 3rd party vst demos?

  • 3rd party vst demos?

    T
    T

    I like the MIR demos with vsl instruments, but I would love to hear some 3rd party instruments too. I would imagine that Sample Modeling trumpet, trombone and WIVI brass would benefit the MIR greatly. If anyone has something to share, I would like to hear it. Thanks a lot!
  • D
    D

     Hello Tabbu,

    recently I have done some demos of 3rd party instruments for somebody - giving him privately. Because the possibilties of using MIR quite endless. So what would be nice to show? Making the demos I thougt thats a very hard job. You don't know what people are expecting and a lot of things are a matter of taste.

    I would do, if you would be satisfied with the trumpet of Sample Modeling only. I don't have the others - for a good reason. Sorry to say, but I don't like the basically sound of these virtual instruments. I know, lots of people swear on The Trumpet or Trombone and use it daily, in my library that is dead body. That's why I think for myself it's not a good basic to give them a real space like with MIR. But I will give it a new try for you (that's interesting for me too). Can you wait a little bit? - I think until middle of next week. What's your intentional using of the trumpet? More in a classical or a modern context? The venues sound very different - some a venue itself can be sound in very different ways. So your favour style of making music would be good to know.   

    Best

    Frank     
  • T
    T

    Thanks for your reply. Hearing The Trumpet with MIR would be great.  I'm mainly interested of more modern film music. Also I'm interested how The Trumpet works both in solo and in section phrases.

    What I've heard from some demos, The Trumpet is really, really dry, so I think MIR could give some life to the samples.

    Thanks for in advance!
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD

    I'm sure this will sound great - just keep in mind that 3rd-party instruments can't rely on the individual Instrument Profiles that are available for more or less all Vienna Instruments.

    That's what the MIR Manual has to say about these unique profiles (p. 15 ff):

    ------------------------------------------

    Instrument Directivity Profiles

    In fact, quite the opposite is true.


    MIR covers directionality (i.e., "room") both from the listener's perspective (the microphone) as well as from the signal source's perspective (the instrument). We’ve already seen how Ambisonics is used for a completely flexible main microphone setup. The way to achieve the same flexibility regarding an instrument's position is partly covered by the Multi Impulse Responses themselves, of course – but the MIR engine needs to know much more about the source signals to make full use of this huge amount of spatial information.

    This is why we implemented detailed, individual Instrument Directivity Profiles for (almost) every Vienna Instrument. In addition we supply “General Purpose” Profiles for the use with any virtual instrument MIR is able to host.


    The underlying data was gathered over (literally) years of extensive research and development, and is now saved within so-called Instrument Profiles. They are not directly visible to the user, but selected from a list in accordance with the required Vienna Instrument's samples.


    Why all the effort? Just look at the raw measurement results of two common instruments above, a flute and an alto trombone.

    Each curve shows the instrument’s unweighted frequency profiles as emitted by the instrument in 60° sectors in an unreflective measurement room (including ceiling and floor). It is clearly visible that the flute is anything but an "omnidirectional“ source. Now compare this profile with the trombone shown on the right. The differences are more than obvious – and of course this also holds true for any other instrument.


    Measured with the aid of our newly developed method (based on sectorized microphone swarms), we gathered an enormous database of frequency profiles for all kinds of instruments (and other sources). Taking into account these directivity-dependent changes in sound, we can now supply MIR with a direction-dependent acoustic fingerprint. This is made possible by the way we recorded the multi impulse sets of each room: As mentioned before, the impulses were sent into the room in the same sectorized way we used for measuring the instruments – in 60° steps, plus the room’s ceiling and floor.


    To enhance the achievable authenticity even more, the raw profiles were weighted regarding an instrument’s typical playing styles and the average distribution of pitches we gathered statistically from analyzing dozens of exemplary orchestral music scores. Apart from directivity information, Instrument Profiles contain data about other aspects, too:


    − Natural Volume
    − The Stereo Width inherent in the original recording
    − Instrument and / or ensemble size
    − Natural timbres and possible changes to them
    − Typical playing techniques and ways of sound production


    In combination with all these aspects saved in an Instrument Profile, the directivity patterns greatly enhance the possibilities of MIR, and thus the achievable realism of a virtual orchestral performance.

     ------------------------------------------

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • D
    D

     Hello Tabbu,

    after listening your music on your web-site (overlooked at first) I'm quite shure that the trumpet for your music make a good job - and will do it with MIR as well or much better.

    As Dietz wrote you don't have the possibilities with the trumpet in MIR as you have with the vienna instruments. I suppose mostly for the trumpet I will miss the possibilities of the directivity information. But I can do an experiment using the VI trumpet Directivity Profile and listen what happens - compared to the normal way of using the General Purpose Profile (cardoid I think will be here the best choice).

    I've heard some opinions in this forum they are using the Directivity Profiles of VI for 3rd part instruments often and in most cases it fits. For my ears and in my experiments I would say it doesn't so and I prefer  to use the General Purpose Profile.

    But if I do both you can decide by yourself. Maybe for your music using the unorthodoxly way works. Btw - I find the mix of using electronic and classical instruments in your music nice. It is convincing. I do  v e r y  different things, thats why I don't prefer The Trumpet. For you it fits very well for shure!

    Making a section with the trumpet alone will be hard. I think I could try to insert a Convolution Reverb using different IRs to give the instrument different timbres or else it will be sound quite synthetic. But that makes a little effort, so I can't promise to do that.

    Frank