Music from sunny California

[dpcon]

Hello everyone,

I've been posting here for a while as if I know what I'm talking about so it's about time that I'm found out for the hack that I am.

I actually sent an mp3 (New Life) to VSL long ago but it didn't make the cut apparently. Probably because it is sonically inferior as I'm still learning the many techniques of engineering in order to get the kind of quality sound many of you have in your music. I've been waiting to post in the new VSL user mp3 area but since that hasn't happened the very talented Mathis has been so kind as to provide me some space at his site.

The work is an epic orchestral showpiece that is designed to show a few different styles musically and of course my own sensibility in their presentation (with the exception of an obvious J. Williams riff thrown in for fun.) It came into being when I discovered the very effective PerfLeg instruments (their sound and agility.) There are doublings with Miroslav brass, winds, and low strings as well as Roland high strings. Also Garritan tremolo strings and basses. DSounds Orchestral Percussion handles all the percussion. The voices are London Choir and the Irish flute phrases from Worldwinds.

I welcome any thoughts, criticisms or comments. Also the mp3 encoding seemed to add some artifacts that are not in the original so I may try another one for better results.

Thanks,

Dave Connor
www.mathis-nitschke.com/dpcon/New_Life.mp3
This is the correct version found below as well

[mathis]

Hi Dave,

you´re very welcome. (Paul, I noticed you´re also waiting for vsl user server space. I currently have plenty and am curious what you´re doing. Just send me an mp3 to the mailadress I send you via PM.)

For some reason I´m often mostly engaged by some emptiness in music, so I really like your ending. Opposite of empty is your beginning which I understood not before hearing it two times. I didn´t catch the tonality fast enough and so this glissando flute (what´s its name again?) actually sounded out of tune to me. But that might be due to my simple minded brain, as someone stated before... [[;)]] ) It´s curious, I actually heard it now 5 times and I understand it more and more. There´s really a lot of things happening! You even almost integrated a Hindemith´ian fuge exposition...
Personally I would prefer every section longer since it´s beautiful stuff once I could sort it out. But I´m curious how the others feel about it, if it´s only me. (I´m indeed kind of slow in listening...)

Mix-wise I´m a bit irritated about the stereo field. First I thought you simply have a left-right cross error in your studio, since the high strings are right and the low strings are left. But later the horns are left at a position I would normally put them, too. What is your imagination of the virtual stage? I don´t really get it.
What horns did you use? I´m a bit disappointed by their sound. You seem to have used a crescendo patch where I expected a more sfz sound.
For my taste you were to shy with reverberance. I hardly hear any room. Is that by purpose?
I´m curious if you played in the parts or if you programmed/quantized them?

Sorry, so much remarks. But I´d like to see this forum as a place for really constructive feedback (of course in the hope that my personal opinion *is* constructive...)

I´m very jealous to your sunny California,
greetings from cold Holland,
- Mathis

[PaulR]

Good evening Gentlemen,

I haven't got the time to listen to this tonight unfortunately. I'm in the middle of watching The Third Man for the umpteenth time and I'm wasted. First thing tomorrow morning Dave, when I'm almost normal and can give it my full attention. [:)]

Mathis my dear fellow, thats a generous offer. At the moment, I'm in the middle of changing systems and don't want to send you anything just yet, if that's OK. When I get the G5 up and running, then definately. Comatose at the moment.

Later

Paul

[dpcon]

"I didn´t catch the tonality fast enough."

The opening tonality is suspended in nature at first however the melodic figure in the Irish Flute is very modal and self contained and clear to my ears anyway. It's deliberately under the pitch in it's resolution which is idiomatic. That is a sampled phrase and not performed by me. Also the figure in the cello is cadential in nature and once again seems to point up the harmony. If you mean what follows (trombone chords with ascending motive in Vlns) is unclear it's basically a sequence to create tension and give way to a more settled harmony. But I really approached the three chord figure as a "cell" to be played upon and exploited as a sort of shifting harmonic backround (which I found refreshing rather than say 1 4 5 harmonies.)

"Personally I would prefer every section longer since it´s beautiful stuff once I could sort it out."

Others have said the same but I deliberately jumped from one section to the other as a kind of tour. Long demos just don't get listened to here in LA.

"What horns did you use? I´m a bit disappointed by their sound. You seem to have used a crescendo patch where I expected a more sfz sound."

Yes sfz probably would be better in the fugal section but I didn't go through the painstaking selection of sfz here legato there. It's really a demo designed to show composition as opposed to midi and samples expertise. They are VSL PerfLeg and Miraslav and Roland and BiggaGigga.

"For my taste you were to shy with reverberance. I hardly hear any room. Is that by purpose?"

I agree. I tried adding some (Altiverb) reverb to that mix which does have some Lexicon PCM 80 room but it sounded too muddy.

"I´m curious if you played in the parts or if you programmed/quantized them?"

Both. I'm sure I did some quantizing but I avoid it if I can.

"I´m very jealous to your sunny California,
greetings from cold Holland"

Well at least you like the weather here [:)]

Thanks for such generosity Mathis.

Dave

[William]

I agree with Mathis's reactions - Dave's piece is very "excerpted" in feel - moving from one thing to another which is fine for a demo but makes one want to hear more of something simple and definite. I would agree the sound needs more reverb. The stereo image and the strings sounded somewhat artificial and electronic but that is mainly the effect of not having the size and ambience needed. The larger ensemble instruments must have more room to breathe.

Of course I alway tend to pile on the reverb to the point of mud. So maybe I am not the one to listen to there.

This is a complex, interesting piece by a real musical talent but I don't grasp it immediately. I am though very simplistic in my desire for an obvious melody.

[PaulR]

@dpcon said:

Hello everyone,
I've been posting here for a while as if I know what I'm talking about so it's about time that I'm found out for the hack that I am.

Hehe! Being asked to give an opinion on friends music aye! Thats like having your wisdom teeth extracted (only the one so far btw).

I gave it the first listen on the Windows Media Player and thought 'I don't understand this at the moment'. Then I loaded it into my Steinberg My MP3 player and listened to it again about 6 or 7 times. I then referred to the previous posts for reference, whilst trying to keep my own sujectiveness.

I messed about with the compression, eq and enhancer in the MP3 player after about 4 listens. And Bingo! Once I was satisfied with the sound coming through very good Sony headphones, I actually listened to the composition then.

At 31 seconds in, big smile on the face. Thats an American sound to me right there and after that I was sold. Loved it. Takes time to get used to it and needs to be listened to a few times.

I leave the technical stuff to the guys who know about this stuff much better than me. The only thing from my point of view might be, and this is just persoanl taste, more defined placement and more space (maybe more reverb or different reverb settings). Bill and Mathis and hopefully other's comments on this area particularly, allow me to defer.

It is "excerpted" as Bill says, but thats understandable. Its filmscore music to me and thats what its meant to be. Get the techy bits right and the compositions will take care of the rest.

Apart from technical details, I very much enjoy listening to this piece Dave, and thank you very much indeed. Excellent!

Paul

[dpcon]

On the technical side of things this is not a Digital files, Altiverb, S1 but rather me wrestling at a mixing console (which is trouble right there.) After I mixed it I realized it was well shy on Reverb but adding to the original mix just muddied it up. I'm going to go with the Dig, Altiverb, S1 etc, set up in order to get a better sound (and control) and perhaps even more important to have all the parameters stored in the computer. I've wanted to remix this a thousand times but it means a major time commitment at a mixing console dialing up a ton of settings and I haven't had time. I think the criticisms here are right on the mark (I have been all too aware of the drawbacks.)

Musically I was a bit surprised that the piece is not so easily apprehended at the outset. To me it seems: intro, build, epic statement, transition, fugal section. But everyone has said the same thing, that it's unclear - hardly a coincidence. So I'm listening again to hear it in that light. As far as the construction of one idea quickly to the next, it really is a composed demonstration very deliberately done that way. It's written more for a producer or directors ears than a musicians. Those guys just don't want to listen to 20 minutes of music to know what you can do. They need to know in a matter of seconds. So it's frustrating because all those sections could be 20 minutes each.

Thank you gentlemen. I may remix it after all this but I don't know.

Dave

[mathis]

By the way, this is the panning corrected version which Dave sent me:
www.mathis-nitschke.com/dpcon/New_Life.mp3

I listened to it today again after some days and was really surprised about my complete opposite perception. Now everything felt in good proportion and in clear tonality. Strange, hä? Maybe it´s because I learned it some days ago or my perception is more clear today. Maybe both. Really, these few days ago I understood nothing.
It´s curious how different I´m listening from day to day. The Ravel demo I couldn´t listen to some days ago, today I really like it. Maybe with DKala it´s the same? I wanted to try it but he removed the file already.

I´m curious, Dave, how do your clients react on this demo?

Bests,
- Mathis

[PaulR]

@mathis said:

By the way, this is the panning corrected version which Dave sent me:www.mathis-nitschke.com/dpcon/New_Life.mp3bests,- Mathis

Thats different by comparison! [:)]

[dpcon]

@mathis said:

I´m curious, Dave, how do your clients react on this demo?

Very good question. The trailer industry people don't think it meets their standards. It doesn't meet mine either. Generally most people like it and actually think it sounds good. I may remix it and address some of the obvious problems such as more appropriate samples for the performances. Also reinforce some parts with orchestration. And more reverb!

Dave

[William]

I'd like to hear those sections fully developed as you mentioned. Maybe you can do that when you're sitting around eating bon-bons and collecting royalties next year.

I personally don't know any royalty.

[dpcon]

I hear you on the Bon Bons Bill. I won't eat any but I 'd like to compose a few. Perhaps some serious works as well. It would be interesting to start a thread on the life of the artist in America. Europe traditionally has been for more supportive - even of American artists (including jazz players, as you probably know.)

Don't know any royalty? Isn't that Paul guy a knight or duke or something?

DC

[William]

Oh yes, Sir Robbins. But he was stripped of his title. He's now living in an ancient stone tower on a forbidding cliff above the stormy sea where he's been confined by the local duke. Something about "Crimes against Nature" - that sort of thing. Apparently he'd been reading "The Monk." Anyway, it's to our benefit since he gets lots of time to post here.

[dpcon]

"Crimes Against Nature" ?

What did he do, score a big Hollywood movie?

DC

[mathis]

@dpcon said:

"Crimes Against Nature" ?

What did he do, score a big Hollywood movie?

DC

[:D]

[William]

No, what happened was he talked to some people about providing backing for Britney. He was actually planning on using VSL string samples! Can you believe that? That's why he's locked in that tower. The duke had no choice. He's a sample user himself. Has a great EXS24 setup and so of course has some respect for the VSL. But anyway I hear Old Robbie's fingernails and hair are getting really long. And there's a strange look in his eyes now. Or so the locals say. Of course they're a superstitious lot around there. But I shudder to think of what's going to happen when they let Old Robbie out. Probably be a great subject for a new Hammer film.

[PaulR]

Bit of transatlantic chirp aye? Bit of teutonic chirp thrown for good measure in as well! Was it something I said? I can take it, and I can dish it! Haven't got time now unfortunately. Maybe later though! Bit of trouble with the old mem saib actually. Played a bit of trick tonight on her in the shower. There could be a court case! She screamed the bloody place down! I blame you lot and all that talk about Psycho! Becoming a monk could be closer than you think.

Later

Mel Brooks

[dpcon]

You just can't beat Paul (Sir Robbins) after he's had a few.

DC