I haven't seen the Korda 'Four Feathers', I saw Sharp's one in a hotel somewhere, again I was quite young and was impressed; I don't know what I would think of it today.

Yes, Spielberg and Lucas are responsible for the state of sci-fi/adventure today and I agree on all points. I must admit though I never left the cinema cursing I had spent the ticket money and wasted two hours of my life during the early 'Star Wars' and 'Indiana Jones'; in fact I had really enjoyed myself. I was a child to a young adult of course, and maybe that's the demographic these directors are interested in, and I never remember either of them betraying artistic pretensions in interviews - "I really wanted to say a lot with this film" or "there are onion-like hermeneutical layers in this" or words to that effect. I think they both have been comfortable with who they are and what they serve. Who's fault it is for them having become the dominant forces I won't explore here.

They do however have my sincere and heartfelt thanks, not for the multiple 2-hour action entertainment and phantasmagoria they have put out all these years, but for having engaged the best composer for the specific jobs. Well done for having been able to recognize and demand that kind of quality in the music department. After all, it is the saddest case of affairs to notice that only Williams and Morricone (Barry's retired) are the only ones left (and over 80?) that could mix it with the previous generations of composers. Everybody else, like YOU-KNOW-WHO (don't say his name!), would have been assigned to coffee-duty!

P.S.: I would also appreciate a trustworthy review of the Bruckner film - for the life of me I can't see how they could have constructed a riveting narrative from that guy's life...

@BadOrange said:

. I think composer films should not focus on the composers themselves but rather the time setting. Like a film that takes place in France in a salon and at the piano is Chopin. Not really all about the composer but more so the art community as a whole.

I very much agree. Why doesn't someone do a film about a fly on the wall, or a secondary character (one of those countesses) during the times of Chopin, Brahms, Wagner, Tchaikovsky, Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, Rakhmaninov, Prokofiev (not the Coco Chanel CRAP). Not to mention the literary, artistic, and scientific figures of the times. Put as many as you can in, and go nuts as the real meeting between Picasso, Proust, Joyce, and Stravinsky (wasn't that the quartet? It's really late here and I have been drinking brandy for the last hour and a half), was real boring...

If I had a couple million lying around I would commission a film about Satie, Cocteau and Picasso. Those three had enough personality for a 20 part miniseries. And just a general biopic on Satie would be great (well, if it were done well, obviously).

What's this about a Bruckner film? Haven't heard of it

@mikezaz_27157 said:

Haha I kind of despise choirs of any kind in films these days because, like you say, they're so overplayed. They no longer mean what they used to, and instead just feel like an insincere and manipulative gesture 99% of the time. It's like the film and the composer don't really "earn" them -  or else it just feels tonally inappropriate (see: every movie trailer meant to feel "epic" - including harry fucking potter). Or another good example is comparing the original Star Wars trilogy score to the new prequel trilogy. Battles that used to be underscored by Stravinskyish/Holstish/early 20th century post romantic type cues with loads of chromaticism are now replaced with big surging Orff choirs singing long diatonic phrases, and even though Williams is really a very decent and thorough guy, it still feels lame and pretentious to me. I guess you can make an analog to how the gritty and functional production design and VFX of the original trilogy was replaced by clean and pristine CGI. 

If memory serves me right, the choir was first introduced in the original Star Wars trilogy during Return of the Jedi.  The choir only plays when Emporer Palpatine is on screen or nearby.  I can't remember who but I think it was Lucas who asked Williams to do something "different" for the emporer, because Williams composes a theme for every main character.  To accomodate, Williams composed a choir heavy score for the emperor.  The emperor is also a strong religious figure in the series so what musical device works extremely well for religious themes?  That's right, a choir.  At first, Lucas was apprehensive but went along with it.  Lucas has stated that the chior heavy score during the duel between Darth Vador and Luke Skywalker, where Emperor Palpatine watches, at the end of Return of the Jedi is his favorite score of the entire triology.  Interesting, since that score is really not all that popular amongst Star Wars fans.

During Post production of the Phantom Menace it was decided to keep the tradition of having a choir play anytime the Sith were on screen to tie it all back to Return of the Jedi.  I could be wrong but the only time you hear a choir during the prequel triology is when the Sith are doing battle or are somehow involved.  I believe Lucas wanted a subtle choir part for Senator Palpatine's theme to sort of forshadow his true identity but I can't remember Palpatine even having a theme, at least  I don't remember in Phantom...  Maybe Williams talked George out of it.

I do agree, however, that choirs are being overused in film to the point to where they are just cliche now.  Mr. Elfman, are you reading this?  Don't get me wrong, I think you're a fine composer but maybe give the choirs a rest every once in a while.   

@BadOrange said:

.S.: I would also appreciate a trustworthy review of the Bruckner film - for the life of me I can't see how they could have constructed a riveting narrative from that guy's life... No kidding. Of all the composers to pick. I mean Schubert or Schumann at least give you something to use but Bruckner ? I think composer films should not focus on the composers themselves but rather the time setting. Like a film that takes place in France in a salon and at the piano is Chopin. Not really all about the composer but more so the art community as a whole.

Yes, Bruckner would not seem a normal bio subject, as he was a kindly, old-fashioned man of the country who happened to write great music.  However, he did have some kinks, like obsessive counting, and having a bible he presented to a girl he loved thrown at him as she screamed a rejection at him, as well as undisclosed problems that led to his institutionlization at the point that this film apparently deals with.  Also, his spiritual, backwoodsy nature being thrust into the city life of Vienna - that might be interesting also. 

BTW you are right to mention Schuman - now there is a great subject for an extremely dramatic film about a composer.  First of all he is in love with a beautiful young pianist whose father forbids their marriage.  Secondly he forms a group dedicated to young composers advancing music against the Phillistines (whatever those are).  Thirdly he was the first to notice Brahms and promote him. Fourth he went insane and started hearing a constant "A" pitch, causing him to collapse during conducting. And finally he tried to commit suicide before being thrown into an asylum.  So his life was extremely dramatic, and the times he lived in inherently interesting - the mid to late Romantic period.    That film previously mentioned - "Song of Love" is actually a pretty good depiction of Schumann's life even though it was a studio era Hollywood biopic.  Unfortunately NOT available on DVD!

@William said:

First of all he is in love with a beautiful young pianist whose father forbids their marriage.  Secondly he forms a group dedicated to young composers advancing music against the Phillistines (whatever those are).  Thirdly he was the first to notice Brahms and promote him. Fourth he went insane and started hearing a constant "A" pitch, causing him to collapse during conducting. And finally he tried to commit suicide before being thrown into an asylum.  

What's so dramatic about that. Sounds like a normal, run-of-the -mill day.

'Song of Love' I enjoyed thoroughly, if for no other reason because there was still some nobility in the actors back then, necessary to depict the romantic elite as accurately as possible in their stylized behaviour; it's a pity they have re-released obscure black-and-whites and not this film...

There is another Bruckner moment to be included in what should be a boring film unless it includes a lot of his music (even then...), is when he greeted a woman at the door stark naked - he was taking a bath and was absent minded when he heard the knocking (Mahler recalls, Lebrecht relates)...

@Errikos said:

he greeted a woman at the door stark naked - he was taking a bath and was absent minded when he heard the knocking (Mahler recalls, Lebrecht relates)...

Don't you hate it when that happens.  It has certainly caused me a lot of embarrassment over the years[:$]  Especially since I wasn't even bathing.

 Bruckner was always trying to get a girlfriend but never did, apparently. 

Now if he had written shorter symphonies he might have had some time to develop a strategy for getting dates.

@William said:

 Bruckner was always trying to get a girlfriend but never did, apparently. 

And he finally got into some trouble over that. But so has the LIBERAL MP for Portsmouth. Tall, blonde girls from Russia and now has finally 'done a Bruckner' . Guffaw!

Dude you totally missed Messiaen writing and performing Quartet for the End of Time in a POW camp! That'd be the highlight for me

@BadOrange said:

A particular idea for film I would enjoy would sort of revolve around the coming about of the third Reich and how that impacted much of the art community. You could have lot of perspectives from the virtuosic players in concentration camps, the dismals at the conservatories including if i'm not mistaken Schoenberg over "race" issues or in Schoenberg's instance his championing of Mahler and I suppose Strauss' relatively neither apposing or endorsing the actions taken. What material was banned and what was encouraged. And a remake of the Furtwängler Bruckner performances would be quite neat. In fact it would be interesting to know how many of the left over musicians felt as I can imagine many of them did not prescribe to the Nazi ideology and could care less whether a musician was jewish as long as he could play. I think I just like anything to do with WWII and WWII with musicians, well a new twist.

Wasn't  The Pianist kind of sort of about that?  I didn't see the film but I think it's about the Polish pianist Szpilman and the turmoil he went through during World War II.  Again, I didn't see the film but I hear it's pretty good.

@William said:

 Now if he had written shorter symphonies he might have had some time to develop a strategy for getting dates.

Or a strategy of not answering the door stark naked.  I'm pretty sure chicks don't dig that.[;)]

According to record neither did the Bruckner chick, she ran away screaming! Perhaps Bruckner also had "happy" thoughts in the bathtub before he answered the door?.. Now, there's a movie! Lars von Trier where are you? Although Tony Palmer is also capable of this.

@Errikos said:

According to record neither did the Bruckner chick, she ran away screaming! Perhaps Bruckner also had "happy" thoughts in the bathtub before he answered the door?.. Now, there's a movie! Lars von Trier where are you? Although Tony Palmer is also capable of this.

 [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D]

LOL.  You're such a card Errik