Hi Maestro2b,

according Dietz the piano sound of the really amazing demo is made with the 'player position' only!! (compare the post above)

But he was using a double-layer setup for some other (pop) - projekts.  The double-layer concept was a speculation of myself. I was surprised (maybe like you) that he used the player position only.

Surprising, yes, MIR helps a lot, but no machine of the world is able to substitue the art of mixing. 

And it's important to be aware, that the touch and the voicings of the great piano-player in this demo is the first half of the sound.  

I hope, Dietz wil not regret his amazing offer. To be allowed to get a closer look in a work of a master is not an everyday occurence.

Kind regards

Frank

Some comments:

I didn't use two different settings of Vienna Imperial for "Sentimental Mood", just the Player's Perspective setting.

I used two perspectives of the Vienna Imperial on some occasions in a pop-context (always Close and Player, AFAIR), when I was aiming for that typical "bigger than life" sound - which is not what you would like to here in a classical or jazz piece.

Edit: Frank was typing faster than me!  :-D

@doubleattack said:

[...] (And while I'm playing jolly I'm thinking of the poor men they have had to work for three months this stupid recordings  - in a silence stage. My wife was told me what that means, because she was working often in a anechoic chamber for some years - long time ago. The result was it worth, that's for shure.)   [...]

Frank, the Vienna Imperial was sampled form a Boesendorfer CEUS, which is actually played by a computer: -> [URL]http://www.boesendorfer.com/index.php?m=70&lang=en[/URL] Otherwise we wouldn't have been able to supply you with 100 discrete velocities from a single key. Neither men nor animals got harmed during the recordings of this instrument. 😉

Apart from that - VSL's SilentStage is _very_ far from being an anechoic room. It's meant to be a concert hall without the audience area (thus "Stage"), with special precautions being taken against noise from the outside (thus "Silent"). Acoustic instruments sound _awful_ in an anechoic room. Watch the QuickTime VR presentation on this page and you get the idea: -> [URL]http://vsl.co.at/en/65/72/102/19.vsl[/URL]

*************

Regarding the MIR Project data of "Sentimental Mood": I've already found the proper file. The problem is that it points to a pre-release version of the Venue ORF Studio 2, so we have to re-build it to make it usable for you.

BTW - there was much less processing done on the single instruments than I thought - no compression on the piano, just the VI's built-in EQ. You will be astonished. - I remember that I did some "mastering" on the final mix, though.

I'll let you know when it's available for D/L.

Kind regards,

@Another User said:

Regarding the MIR Project data of "Sentimental Mood": I've already found the proper file. The problem is that it points to a pre-release version of the Venue ORF Studio 2, so we have to re-build it to make it usable for you.

BTW - there was much less processing done on the single instruments than I thought - no compression on the piano, just the VI's built-in EQ. You will be astonished. - I remember that I did some "mastering" on the final mix, though.

I'll let you know when it's available for D/L.

Much obliged. Now I have to think how to return the favour.

Frank

Regarding CEUS, I remember, I have read about it in a famous german journal. With CEUS they have made an investigation about the timing of great piano players. And it comes to the conclusion that is much more important what happens  b e t w e e n  the touches of the keys than the touch itself. And the significance of tempostretches and -upsets at the best interpretations. Very interesting. Didn't know that this system was used for vienna imperial. Sorry for double posting, but was exited after reading the link!

Frank

A sidenote: Actually there are much more than 93*100 samples for Vienna Imerial. Due to sympathetic resonances, repetition- and release samples there are up to 1200 samples per key: -> [URL]http://vsl.co.at/en/211/442/478/1701/1703/1306.htm[/URL]

Of the 3 positions available there is no doubt about it that I love Player the most.  The interesting concept behind it is perhaps that I believe I am tainted from being the actual performer over the years.  It just sounds natural to my ears to have the sound coming from the players perspective.  Even though perhaps the listener position yields a slightly different sound, I love the fact that I can give to them as close to exactly what I hear as possible.  It makes for me the ability to do very personal and intimate recordings.  I have only had this piano a few days and I am just blown away how good it sounds compared to all my other pianos.  I can't wait to hear what it's going to sound like once I place it into MIR and align it properly.

I do have some velocity issues to resolve though which is another issue though.  I need to figure out how to map velocity curves into this piano as I can't find a curve in the software.  I would love to improve the dynamic performace of my Keyboard into the software more closely.  I think it would instantly raise the quality another leap and bound.

Maestro2be

@Dietz said:

A sidenote: Actually there are much more than 93*100 samples for Vienna Imerial. Due to sympathetic resonances, repetition- and release samples there are up to 1200 samples per key: -> http://vsl.co.at/en/211/442/478/1701/1703/1306.htm

The most astonishing thing for me is, how it's possible to compress that huge content in 50 GB only without any audible losses. It's a very very convincing sound, so the torture for the recording team (can't be funny, I don't believe so) was it worth. Incredible!  

Frank

@doubleattack said:

The most astonishing thing for me is, how it's possible to compress that huge content in 50 GB only without any audible losses.

... yes, that's one if the great things in the background that the VSL developers were able to achieve. It's lossless compression (opposed to data-reduction like MP3, for example).

****

BTW - there will be a link to the MIR-Project of  "Sentimental Mood" soon. Our IT-chief became suspicious when I asked him to host the file ... 😄

Best,

@Dietz said:

...Our IT-chief became suspicious when I asked him to host the file ... 😄

For giving away knowlegde? That's apprehensible. It 's really a unselfish invitation of you. But: Be able to read something means not be able to be a Writer. 

But if he's afraid henceforth I'm working only nothing but vsl and vi, whilest he's sweating blood to solve some negligible issues with some kind of german software, you can becalm him too. There's no connection. I'm not open to bribery,   v   e   r   y    forbearing only.

Kind regards

Frank

Here we go - please click here (or here, when you're in the US).

Enjoy!

EDIT: Downloadable files are repaired now!

Thanks Dietz!!  I will try this tomorrow and let you know the results!  It downloaded just fine (the U.S. Version).

Much appreciated!

Maestro2be

 Download done! Totally rapt, will check it out this evening!! Thanks so much!!!

Kind regards

Frank

Is the mistake mine? Did un-zip the file (with win-rar) but it has 1 KB only and MIR - consequentially - is giving the message "can't load file_name of the file_"  if I try it to load.

I remember for some similar issues in another case, but don't know anymore, what I did exactly to solve the problem. Do I have to go to vsl-manager for decompressing?

So any help much appreciated. Sorry for my inconvenincing.

Frank  

It's not you - there's something wrong with the file. I just downloaded it myself and get the same error as you. :-/

Sorry for the confusion - I'll see that it gets fixed ASAP. I'll keep you posted.

Good to know, don't worry. Didn't you wrote something of a suspicious chief...[:D] 

Frank

[:@] <- him

LOL

Second try! [<:o)]

It's a weekend, that's why I couldn't simply replace the file on our server. Please use this YouSendIt-link to download the fixed file in the meantime (the link will expire in one week). It's packed into a ZIP-archive and should be around 99 kB once it is opened.

I was going back to the original MIR Project file for that, and there was indeed all the processing I was talking about before (some compression and EQing on the piano, more processing on the bass). I got confused by the fact that I tried other versions in other Venues later, but the one you all know it the one I liked most.

Let me know it this works now.

Kind regards,

What a kindly service, Dietz! Thanks so much again! Download done and it seems to work, after I've open it shows 99KB.

So I will load and look in it sunday morning and will be all ears. (And will give a feedback, of course.)

 Have a nice weekend and best wishes!

Frank

You're welcome!

BTW  - Chris Marin (aka. CM on these pages) has already replaced the files in the "official" links, too. Enough said about us VSL guys and weekends ... 8-)

After the little inserts back to the proper meaning of this thread: Did load the file without any problems - and  very  a m a z i n g !! 

First, I was surprised about using double EQing - inside vienna imperial and with the inserted EQ. And the EQ settings! Don't want to go deeper in the details, but that balanced using of low frequencies of room with the light extenuated brillance in the c - c1 octave makes the difference, specially for this kind of piano jazz, because this oktave is used for the compings. So you got with this mix the very fine contrast between the chords ans single melody-lines in the higher ranges (more light and airy) with the lower compings (warm and dark) and you got fore- and background like two different instruments for the piano only.  YES! - I aimed at that sound (and never got  t h i s  one)! So these file are very very useful for me and it is a real gift, Dietz! So thanks so much again, it's not taked for granted. 

I saw the lot of insert tweaks for the bass too, and of course the using of the classical drum preattunements in MIR for the jazz drum.[:O]

But will have a closer look to the rhythm section later this week. I'm impatient to do this! [:)]

Kind regards

Frank