@William said:

Oh, they are "accessible" works by John Cage.     That is important, isn't it?  Because we - being not on the higher academic level that you occupy -  need "accessible" works.  The assumed arrogance in these mikezaz posts is disgusting.  He is NOT the superior of anyone here, o.k.?  So he should stop acting like it. 

I realized the reason why I was so disturbed by this otherwise trivial personage is that he brought back the mentality which I happliy thought vanished long ago -  of being at a university music department.  I was not a professor mind you, or a composition student, or even a music major.  I was just a french horn player who was in brass choir, orchestra, brass quintet, etc.  And then I took a few classes in orchestration.  I took a test for advanced harmony and that was it.  But at that university I ended up majoring in English.  So of course, that means I was a dysfunctional wretch who couldn't figure out what to do.  But the music department was a frightening collection of people who depressed, disturbed and enraged me and I realized later they were essentially people who couldn't work in music, and so went to the university. 

That is all you really need to know about academic music which is the world mikezaz represents beautifully.  It is basically people who don't succeed in music, and so "study" it and become professors or phonies who post long-winded statements on forums. 

The people who are actually successful musicians - not me of course because I am a total anachronism and neurotic and can neither function in pop music nor the phony-ass world of mikezaz and his professors - but the other musicians here, many of whom are brilliant, are actually working musicians whose food is provided for not by lecturing and acting arrogant and intelligent about music, but by doing it. 

So all of the attitude put out by this person means absolutely nothing here.  Because this is first and foremost a forum for working musicians and a successful commercial enterprise that is also highly artistic. 

I am sure he will have another rejoinder but he is becoming very boring with the limitations of his academically created brain.

Again I have no idea why you're so upset. Different pieces of music are more accessible than others (To use Beethoven as an example, I would say for instance that the 9th is more accessible than the Grosse Fugue), and these John Cage pieces are much more so than his other music.

When I'm recommending music to people who have had a bad experience with a composer in question, I don't immediately try to find the most complex and unfriendly pieces - I look for the ones that are the most fun to listen to and start there. These are often my favorite pieces as well, so it works out. That's all I meant by this post, but apparently you are determined to read quite a bit more into it, which seems to be a persistent problem in this thread. 

I'll post the links again because I do think it's important that people hear them (there aren't enough links to music in this thread in general, just words). I am again not a disciple of John Cage - these are some of the the only works of his that I really love: 

@William said:

 One other thing for the little monkey-see-monkey-do-student-professor-buttkisser mikezaz - don't profane the name of Herrmann with your filthy university-scum lips.  You - as a conventionally programmed academic drone - and John Cage - as a modernist phony who pulled a big joke on all of Europe and America for his entire life's work - are not worthy of existing on the same dimensional plane as Herrmann, a great composer whose every score I have studied for the last forty years - in contrast to John Cage your hero whose entire musical output no one with any self respect would even glance at.  He is absolutely representative of the nadir of modernism - art with no soul, life or sincerity that is foisted off on people as a cynical joke.

1) I don't think Herrmann would respect your hero worship for a second. Treat him like a human being, anyone can talk about him (this is where you can again accuse me of hero worship of John Cage, except, if you go back in this thread, you'll find I've done no such thing ever, and in fact disagree with a lot of his views and dislike a lot of his music). 

2) Through my school I was able to study several original Herrmann manuscripts. It was pretty cool. School is pretty cool, so maybe chill out a little bit and stop strawmanning me so much? 

@mikezaz_27157 said:

Paul, I still want to know where I posted before and why you remember me. 

I was with a delegation of governors visiting an asylum for the hopelessly insane deep into Arkansas and we stumbled upon you and Trevor locked in a padded cell. You were both mumbling about the demise of homogenous v heterogenous music and how Hans Zimmer had perverted music in post 1985 movies.

While we were hugely impressed with your vocabulary it was felt it best to leave you there and after throwing you both some nuts, repaired to another part of the building.

heterogeneity

Paul, I absolutely love your posts. They are like reading a surrealist novel. Please keep them coming. 

Hi Lon, I did the best to follow your difficult post. My reponses to it are

1) Cage isn't really a revolutionary any more, is he? His ideas after all are pretty stale and, like most of modernism, now toothless and abandoned. 

2) Thanks, I'm glad you liked my piece! 

3) But no, I am not at all "boasting for cage revolutionary statements." I disagree with a lot of Cage, there's not a lot of his music that I like, and as I've mentioned before, the only pieces I love are the "Sonatas and Interludes For Prepared Piano." This isn't a particularly uncommon opinion to have these days - most of my friends share it, as does Richard Taruskin, who wrote a great article on Cage which I recommend, if you want to know exactly why his ideas are mostly harmless these days. 

@Dietz said:

Dear Forum Members,

please don't make me close yet another thread. Stick to a friendly tone, and stay on topic. Thanks!

Threads actually get closed here?  Hard to believe when you see all the throwing of monkey feces...

@Dietz said:

Dear Forum Members,

please don't make me close yet another thread. Stick to a friendly tone, and stay on topic. Thanks!

Threads actually get closed here?  Hard to believe when you see all the throwing of monkey ***...

Sigh.

Actually I like the _content_ of this thread, I just hate the _tone_. Another (final) call for politeness, ok?

Moderation. Yes. politeness. Yes. Take a deep breath. Hummmm. That feels a lot better. You say potato, I say potaatoe. You say tomatoe, I say tommatoe. Lets call the whole thing off...

I've just signed up for a degree online. Guaranteed a phd in music for $10,000. Therefore, I will be Beethoven by next year. And I will bring back themes to the silver screen....  The heck with all of ya'll.  

To maybe get back on topic, here are some popular themes from the last 25 or so years that I like a lot, and think are up there with the great movie themes of all time:

So what is the point of all these links? It's my opinion that themes never went out of style, they're still all around us (in addition to other kinds of music). 

You've certainly done your homework mike. I had to turn a way for a minute. Watching david lynch. And some others. These were great people with a conscience. Choked up for a minute... Anyway, if I'm correct, the origin of this string were trying to make a point, that these all were from 25 years ago. Where are the present themes ? The computer and software took hold in the last ten years... The live acts are gone also. There was a time when all the major hotels had live acts in them. New york lit up as vegas. That's all gone because of machines. And of-course there are those whom are taking claim and responsibility for it, as if it's the plan they had all along. The Insanity is overwhelming. Didn't congress just pass a bill in turning down the commercials ?  finally.... Television music is so loud now, that I have to turn caption hearing on for the impaired to understand what anyone is saying anymore. Source and production music mixed with synthesized sounds. This is junk. There was a time when a great song took hold and was recognized also. That is no longer either. Therefore, humans are now coat tailing a flimsy business of gamblers. And the market of banking are doing the same also. It's spread all across the board. A couple of elected politicians just spent 100 million and the other 50 million of their own money. One won and the other lost. Imagine loosing 50 million in one shot. There is a money gap so wide between these professions that it's no longer fun to participate on an on-going conversation or any type of power for the fear of fear. If you're somebody today. Look out !  ..   It's difficult for moderators to keep things toned down also.  

@Lon said:

You've certainly done your homework mike. I had to turn a way for a minute. Watching david lynch. And some others. These were great people with a conscience. Choked up for a minute... Anyway, if I'm correct, the origin of this string were trying to make a point, that these all were from 25 years ago. Where are the present themes ? The computer and software took hold in the last ten years... The live acts are gone also. There was a time when all the major hotels had live acts in them. New york lit up as vegas. That's all gone because of machines. And of-course there are those whom are taking claim and responsibility for it, as if it's the plan they had all along. The Insanity is overwhelming. Didn't congress just pass a bill in turning down the commercials ?  finally.... Television music is so loud now, that I have to turn caption hearing on for the impaired to understand what anyone is saying anymore. Source music mixed with synthesized sounds. This is junk. There was a time when a great song took hold and was recognized also. That is no longer either. Therefore, humans are now coat tailing a flimsy business of gamblers. And the market of banking are doing the same also. It's spread all across the board. A couple of elected politicians just spent 100 million and the other 50 million. One won and the other lost. Imagine loosing 50 million in one shot. There is a money gap so wide between these professions that it's no longer fun to participate on an on-going conversation or any type of power for the fear of fear. If you're somebody today. Look out !  ..   It's difficult for moderators to keep things toned down also.  

Hi Lon,

First off, if you want me to narrow my list down to just those composed in the last 10 years, I would be happy to:

These are all off the top of my head, and aren't even necessarily my absolute favorites, just ones that I thought of first. If you'd like a broader list, I can spend some more time and come up with one for you 😊 Most of these movies are very good, and I recommend them. Also, if you want me to replace the excellent Blue Velvet theme with an equally excellent and more recent Lynch/Badalamenti collaboration, here is the Mulholland Drive theme from, I think, 2002: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpP4nJtGvaE&feature=related

It's more subtle and less referential than Blue Velvet, but I think it's still very good. Also, I can do this excercise with any modern genre you want - there are things that I love everywhere. Mainstream film, underground film, rock music, folk, pop, "art" music, ragga jungle, whatever you want. I like a lot of it, and I can hopefully show you why someone would like it and find worth in it, even if you yourself may not. 

Secondly, I absolutely do not deny that there are terrible problems in the world today, both the world of music and the world at large. But that has always been the case, no? After all, how long ago was it that every person on Earth had to live in constant fear of the two imperial superpowers on the verge of annihilating everything for no reason? And of course, the more we look back through history, the more terror and inhumanity we see. How much worse are things actually today than they were then? I'm not trying to argue that history is the narrative of human progress - faaaaaarrrrr from it. But I also don't believe the sky is falling. 

Ok.  Agree. But please don't say the sky is falling. It reminds me of an event. Only good stuff.... Oh Oh Just remembered I'm black listed. Technology has come a long way. I got to shut me down now. Even though, I'm truly thankful and blessed indeed, just to add, and be honest about everything...  Keep the good stuff going. 

@Lon said:

Ok.  Agree. But please don't say the sky is falling. It reminds me of an event. Only good stuff.... Oh Oh Just remembered I'm black listed. Technology has come a long way. I got to shut me down now. Even though, I'm truly thankful and blessed indeed, just to add, and be honest about everything...  Keep the good stuff going. 

I'm sorry, I can't really follow this post, so forgive me if I misinterpret you. But I hope that you didn't think I meant that we should ignore the bad things in the world. By all means, the world is a horrible fucked up place, but let me tell you, you've got your work cut out for you if you want to try to demonstrate that it's appreciably worse than it's been in the past.

How is what's happening today really worse than the salve trade, the pointless loss of life in World War I, genocide after genocide after genocide throughout the 20th century, European feudalism, European colonialism, the horrors of the early industrial revolution, the Cold War, the Mongol wars, the dark ages, apartheid, Iran Contra, the Great Depression, the dust bowl, the Spanish flu, the Spanish Inquisition the bubonic plague, Mao's "Great Leap Forward", Stalin's "five year plans," McCarthy, the Cuban Missile Crisis and the other times that the world has literally been on the brink of annihilation, general MacArthur literally wanting to nuke China during the Korean war, the exploitation of the American Irish during the U.S. civil war, the U.S. civil war in general, the U.S. south following the civil war and their culture of racism, the opium wars, the rise of American neoconservativism, the native american small pox epidemic, the total lack of rights for women in many parts of the world for most of recorded history, the conquistadors, the Japanese invasion of Manchuria, the Japanese rape of nanking,Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the hypocrisy of the gilded age, the wide spread human sacrifice in the Inca and Maya cultures,  etc. etc. etc. etc.

(I actually don't know what this has to do with film music themes, but you're the one that brought this up, so..)

Wow, in the midst of all those bad events. And during all that time. And people were so neatly dressed. In suits and ties. I'm leaving it at that... 

 Much rather interested in how you composed your compositions. And why ? What you enjoy to play ? I heard the intertwining of Debussy with modern voicings. Fresh twist. Much rather hear your educated venting from that angle. The scoring for pictures is reserved for William, Paul and others. Be-careful of paul. He's a monster... comes out after dark. Your existence may lie in peril. And at your own risk. 

@Lon said:

Wow, in the midst of all those bad events. And during all that time. And people were so neatly dressed. In suits and ties. I'm leaving it at that... 

 Much rather interested in how you composed your compositions. And why ? What you enjoy to play ? I heard the intertwining of Debussy with modern voicings. Fresh twist. Much rather hear your educated venting from that angle. The scoring for pictures is reserved for William, Paul and others. Be-careful of paul. He's a monster... comes out after dark. Your existence may lie in peril. And at your own risk. 

Lon, as far as I can tell we were talking about themes in film music, which was good, and then we were talking about the state of the world, and now we're talking about my music? I really can barely keep up with you, why don't we just go back to what the thread is about, and if you'd still like to talk about my music, maybe I'll make a thread with some of it at some point?

You're right of-course. I'm always interested in anyone's approach or method. And I've heard others mention of guy Bakus' way of working also, which is interesting in-deed. But for some reason this is never the case. Is someone stoping this ? For example, I'm more interested in your compositions and approach. But I'm afraid its gonna be something of the nature of writing by heart or by ear, as Stravinsky honestly eluded when asked. And your compositions are more interesting to me actually than Stravinsky's..  This is why the big stringers here are apt to tonal music aside from abstract. And the point made under this string, I believe ? I myself am on the same tone also. I think tonal is far more difficult and rare. As simple as others make it out to be. I never hear any direct tonal here, in the style of any of the great composers. Except maybe william, paul, DG and a few others. Here back to the same stringers again. This is far more rare and difficult than it is passed up to be. And on the other side of the coin, there are so many way's and languages in producing tonal music. Can everyone understand everyone else or have the time, or willing to comment about their work ? Is this why it's not done ? I had to create my own method myself. In which is surpassed also. And understandingly so. I don't even text or twitter. Too lengthy and stressful for me. I will have to get off here soon also to go back to work. But i posted my life's work anyway. And is it really about our work ? or about someone else controlling everything for themselves ? At the end of the day, It's about them ! ..I can't really talk about all the world's events as you put it, out of respect to VSL. Some things are still not talked about publicly. And I'm not talking about politics, race, sex, drugs and rock & roll. These are minute comparing.. But I'm sure everyone is interested in your approach mike. Please post before you're stopped. This is how it's done today. Even Bob dylan said that. Get in before the weather changes. And he had to day-view his art in england. Brian wilson said this country does not like art. This is the best and living songwriter in the US today. I hate to drop all these names here, but how does one validate ? No matter if it's tonal or abstract. This is still our language foremost. Far more interesting than all the other stuff talked about on daily basses. That's my opinion. I'm studying Cello and piano presently below link. Thats why I'm interested in your work also...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045MPXM4/ref=dm_sp_adp?ie=UTF8&qid=1288108168&sr=1-14 

 Where's Brad?

 Lon -  alias RK? - just had to say hello there!   I hope you are doing well!   Hey, I meant to send you a CD but am totally disorganized due to Vienna MIR.  It's all their fault.  Paul, remember that fine string quintet?  That's the main way I remember people these days.  Anyway, I am thinking of shifting identities myself.  I am grimly determined to evolve into a higher, zen-like being of unending tranquility and repose.

 That DG person...

 ...thinks he is so cool...

 ...with three thousand + posts....