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  4. VI Pro in Logic - no automation?

  • VI Pro in Logic - no automation?

    M
    M

    It seems that VI Pro does not show up in Logic 9's automation at all.

    Most plugins have a full-featured list of all the parameters that can be automated and many allow the user to configure one's own controllers for various parameters. For example, the built-in EVD6 displays a menu like this:

    Omnisphere (3rd party) shows a menu too:

    However, Vi Pro shows nothing at all.

    I know of course that CC numbers can be assigned to several parameters in VI Pro - but it would be even nicer to be able to work directly using Logic's Automation. 

    Any plans for this?

    Regards - Colin
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi Colin,

    no plans yet, but we´ll discuss it.

    Best,

    Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • M
    M

    Thanks for the reply Paul.

    I checked through all my 3rd party instruments and every one except 2 cheap free plugins has implemented this feature in Logic

    Some of them have only a list of certain parameters that can be automated. Some have a list that changes dynamically as the user assigns controllers to functions within the plugin. Or a mixture of both.

    Perhaps VI Pro can at least begin with all the functions that are already assignable.

    As things stand, it is a multi-step procedure to automate VI Pro. You have to move and record a hardware controller that sends CC info. That info is recorded into a region in Logic. You then have to transfer the region data to track automation data. 

    Anyway, maybe in VI Pro v1.1 ??

    Regards - Colin
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi Colin,

    Thanks for the explanation - I am aware that this is a standard. As I said, we´ll discuss it. And yes, it might be in V 1.1.... or earlier [:)]

     Best,

    Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • J
    J

    Hi Colin,

    Wouldn't you want that kind of data to be region based and not track based? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts, and maybe learn a thing or two! [D]
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi,

    I just discussed this with our team - we actually never had any automation for Vienna Instruments, ever. So now it´s on the wishlist, but it doesn´t have a high priority, as the assignable controls are very easy to use and we have quite some more great ideas for VI PRO up our sleeves [;)]

    Thanks for your patience and understanding,

    Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • J
    J

    I'm gonna agree with Paul and the VI Pro designers on this one... because we can assign practically any parameter or switch to a midi controller, having a secondary set of automation control from the host seems redundant. It's not like this is an EQ or compressor and we WANT common parameters mapped to our control surface... due to the nature of the VI interface, we are better off mapping control to midi, so we can control it from our keyboard or midi input device. I agree with Paul that there are many other things on the "the list" that should take priority. In my opinion, I give this issue the weight of 1 (on a scale of 1- 10). My $.02.

    J
  • J
    J
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    @musos said:

    it is a multi-step procedure to automate VI Pro. You have to move and record a hardware controller that sends CC info. That info is recorded into a region in Logic. You then have to transfer the region data to track automation data.

    Colin,

    In protools, we simply assign an external switch or knob/slider/fader to a VI parameter (control-click assign), and then you're good to go. Protools automatically creates an automation lane -- and that's that. Maybe you should take this issue up with your hosts' designers -- since in other hosts 9at least protools), the workflow is seamless. It's simply a matter of choosing the automation lane you want to view.
  • M
    M
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    @jammusique said:

    Wouldn't you want that kind of data to be region based and not track based? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts, and maybe learn a thing or two!

    It all depends on one's workflow I suppose.

    Let's say you record the actual music first and that creates a region in Logic.

    Then you make another pass and record CC data to control a certain parameter - you now have a new region. Either this region must sit on a new track or you must glue it together with the note data. If you do the glue option, you have the benefit of being able to copy or move regions with all data intact, but your edit list looks VERY complex. If you choose a new track (with the same instrument), you end up with lots of tracks and possibly even a cluttered score, unless you start tweaking.

    With track-based automation, you can show/hide the automation and have as many lanes of automation as you like. You can still copy and move easily.

    I use both at different times, but have started to prefer the track-based automation option.

    I'd be happy to hear the opinions of others on this subject.
  • M
    M
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    @jeremyroberts said:

    In protools, we simply assign an external switch or knob/slider/fader to a VI parameter (control-click assign), and then you're good to go. Protools automatically creates an automation lane -- and that's that. Maybe you should take this issue up with your hosts' designers -- since in other hosts 9at least protools), the workflow is seamless. It's simply a matter of choosing the automation lane you want to view.

    Taking anything up with Apple is like trying to open a tin can with a banana peel.....

    I will certainly suggest this to Apple support. It's just that most plugin manufacturers these days seem to include a set of automatable functions that just work in Logic.....

    Does ProTools create these automation lanes immediately with CC data?
  • J
    J
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    @musos said:

    Let's say you record the actual music first and that creates a region in Logic.

    Then you make another pass and record CC data to control a certain parameter - you now have a new region. Either this region must sit on a new track or you must glue it together with the note data. If you do the glue option, you have the benefit of being able to copy or move regions with all data intact, but your edit list looks VERY complex. If you choose a new track (with the same instrument), you end up with lots of tracks and possibly even a cluttered score, unless you start tweaking.

    Ah! This is where Protools has a far superior workflow.

    In Protools, record your performance. Then, enable "midi merge mode" which is what they call "midi overdub" -- so that incoming recorded midi events are merged with existing note data. Go to town... you do not accumulate regions -- the new data is simply added to an automation lane.

    I frequently do this for keyswitches and vel x-fade "performances".

    The issue for you is that Logic likes to make 40 gazillion regions, even when you sneeze. Not my style, so I don't use Logic. I prefer the tape recorder analogy that Protools gives us. But to each his own. 😊
  • J
    J
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    @musos said:

    Does ProTools create these automation lanes immediately with CC data?

    Yes!
  • M
    M

    To Jeremy,

    It certainly seems like ProTools handles this more elegantly and efficiently than Logic. However, I have no intention to buy and start using ProTools.

    After some time, all products start to incorporate features from their competition, so we'll see if either Apple or VSL makes my life easier sometime in the near future.  [;)]