Sibelius Sound Sets and Velocity

[MassMover]

I've got a question concerning how the Sibelius Sound Set is handling different dynamic levels. The default setting is to use CC11 to control Expression, but it is also recommended in the manual to change this to using velocity X-fade. Now while I think this works well on Strings, I definitely hear some flanging when using velocity x-fade on winds and brass. When working in a DAW I can switch VXF on when needed for crescendo on long notes, but for cresc. / dim. effects on short notes I rather use different note-on velocities for a better control. Now in Sibelius this doesn't seem to be an option. Thatswhy I'd like to know, how Sibelius is handling velocities when using the expression fader. I entered a couple of short notes and attached different dynamic-text from ppp to fff to each of them. When I play back this notes while waching the Perf. control panel of the VI i can see the EXP fader go from bottom to top, but what's the use of that when using staccato notes? When I switch the controller for expression to "none" in the map control panel and play back the notes again I can hear different dynamic levels, too. So Sibelius seems to send different Note-on velocities for different dynamics. So, my question is, when using CC11 for expression, is the Note-on velocity still being sent to the VI, and so resulting in a double-effect on the dynamics - and, after all, is there a way to use either expression control or VXF only on long notes? Jan

[andi]

Hello Jan!

If you want to switch between Vel Xfade (controlled by CC11) and normal Velocity controlled dynamics with Sibelius, I recommend the follwong settings on the Perform/Map Control page.
Expression: None (in order to avoid double dynamics)
Vel.xfade On/Off: Any free controller (I use CC12 in the following example)
Velocity crossfader: CC11

In Sibelius just insert one of the following MIDI commands (as Technique Text) to switch between Vel Xfade on and off:
~C12,0 (turns Vel Xfade off)
~C12,127 (turns Vel Xfade on)

When Velocity Xfade is turned off, velocity commands from Sibelius will control the dynamics. When it's turned on the velocity values will go nowhere, but Sibelius sends CC11 values simultaniously and they will control your dynamics.

Best regards,
Andi

[MassMover]

Ah, thanks, andi. I'll try that. Jan

[Yota]

I have the exact same issue of "flanging/chorus effect" on wind instruments which Jan raised. In my setup I describe below, the flute seems to be triggered twice with a slight time gap and thus the resulting strange effect. This issue persists even when I use the default "Perform - Map Control" setting in Vienna Ensemble (i.e. velocity x-fade turned off) -- to be precise, the effect can be heared, when x-fade is OFF, only from the "4B legato-sus" and "5B perf-rep staccato." String instruments sound fine.

My setup is:

Sibelius ver.6.2 playing Vienna Ensemble which has Flute (ch1) and Solo Cello (ch2) from VE Special Edition Plus library.

Sibelius Playback Device is set properly with the latest VE Plus Sound Set.

Please let me know the possible solution if there is.

Thank you!

[andi]

Hello Yota1105!

The patches legato-sus and perf-rep staccato include transition samples in order to make realistic transitions from one note to the next.
In case of the legato-sus patch the transition samples are crossfaded with looped sustain samples. This makes it possible to hold the notes as long as you want. The legato (without "-sustain") patches are not crossfaded and therefore sometimes sound better. However, these samples are not looped. If you prefer the unlooped patch, you can switch these two patches in your matrix.
If you want to, you could also switch the staccato patch with the perf-rep staccato patch in your matrix.

I hope this was helpful.

Best,
Andi

[Yota]

Hi Andi,

Thank you for your reply.

Let me make things clearer. I am referring to solo flute from Special Edition running with Sibelius 6.2

1.The unwanted chorus effect when x-fade is on -- is this a sampler library's issue not solved yet? Do you suggest that I simply turn off the x-fade and use cc11 for Expression? This way the smooth dynamic transition is not possible.

2. The persisting chorus effect even when x-fade is off (with legato-sus and perf-rep staccato patches) -- Do you mean the chorus effect is normal because of the included transition samples? The chorus effect is very significant when the patches are on and the music does not sound realistic. I'm not a computer expert so could you tell me a simpler solution? All the switching patches are dealt by Sibelius "automatically" (Sound Sets are the latest and House Style file is imported). Should I make any customization to the matrix or any configuration change in Sibelius or Vienna Ensemble?

Thank you!

[andi]

Hello Yota1105!

When Velocity Crossfade is turned off, there is no chorus effect - at least not from the Vienna Instruments. That's why I thought that maybe it's the transition you have ment.
When Velocity Crossfade is turned on, there may be something similar to a chorous effect for some velocity values, because two velocity layers get blended.

I recommend using Velocity Crossfade for winds, brass and strings as described in the "Optimizing Sibelius Playback" manual. It will make all hairpins you may have in your score sound much more realistic.

Anyway, there is no issue that needs to be resolved from our side.

Just try switching the legato-sus patch with the legato patch. If you like it more this way, keep the change. If not, don't keep it. ;-)

Best,
Andi

[Yota]

Thank you Andi !