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  4. VE Pro latency comp. off when coming from slaves?
  • Y
    Y

    I just built a test project to test if this occurs on my system. My answer was - no - latency compensation works fine here using OSX 10.6.4, Logic 9.1.1, VEP 4.0.6150. Everything was running at 48kHz as it always is here.

    I wasn't however using Omnisphere or tempo sync. My test was simply to create 2 instances of Kontakt 4.1.1 and to load a short clicky drum sample. One of these instances was hosted locally, directly into the master Logic project, the other instance was loaded via VEP into the 64bit server on a slave Mac Pro.

    I found that the clicky drum sample was properly synchronised between the local and remote (VEP) instances of Kontakt 4.1.1 during playback and for both online & offline bouncing. 

    I guess your problem is either specific to your system, or to Omnisphere.

    I can send you my Logic project file & metaframe if you would like to test it.
  • Y
    Y

    Out of interest, are you running Logic in 32 or 64bits? (32bit here as firewire video doesn't yet work in 64bit)
  • W
    W

    Thanks for the info - much appreciated.  The only apparent variables in our systems are that I'm still on OSX 10.6.3, and you're on 10.6.4.  Other than that, our systems & software versions appear identical.

    FYI, I've tried this with instruments other than Omnisphere; I've also tried Kontakt, PLAY, Vienna Instruments, etc.  It happens in both 64-bit and 32-bit mode in Logic as well as 32-bit & 64-bit VE Pro servers, and also locally-hosted vs. slave-hosted VE Pro servers.  Same result no matter the combination.

    Can you tell me your Logic pref settings?  I've got latency comp. set to "all" but that didn't seem to affect results either...

    Thanks again - I'll keep digging further!
  • J
    J

    Protools users have no choice but to bounce in realtime.

    What you hear is what it is.

    Why not just bus it, and record it?
  • W
    W
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    @jeremyroberts said:

    Protools users have no choice but to bounce in realtime. What you hear is what it is. Why not just bus it, and record it?

    Hey Jeremy,

    I totally get what you're saying, but:

    1. This issue is regardless of offline vs. realtime bouncing, so either way something's wrong (assuming it's not something specific to my setup, which I'm trying to rule out).

    2. For archiving purposes, I render all MIDI regions as audio because change is inevitable, and recalling a project even 6 months down the road can be a nightmare if my setup has changed at all.  Even without that factor, realtime bouncing just gets to be incredibly tedious on larger projects, especially when everything starts as MIDI.

    3. Even after realtime bounces, I still listen back to stems to double-check everything before delivery.  If I'm listening back either way, it would save years of my life to bounce offline first.  The feature is there in Logic, VE Pro supports it, so I'd like to use it 😉
  • J
    J
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    @whinecellarstudio said:

    The feature is there in Logic, VE Pro supports it, so I'd like to use it 😉

    And that's all that really matters! I would feel the same way.

    If PLAYBACK is good, but BOUNCE is not, then something is definitely wrong.
  • W
    W
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    @jeremyroberts said:

    If PLAYBACK is good, but BOUNCE is not, then something is definitely wrong.

    Yep, just need to figure out where the problem lies, as it doesn't seem to happen for everyone.  I'll report back with any news...
  • K
    K

    Indeed rather strange this issue. Especially since you're the first to report it. It would be interesting to know which setting could affect this. Could you perhaps send a realtime and offline render of the same piece to ? Also I'd like to know your audio interface buffer size and the latency the VE Pro plugin is set to. Hopefully with that information I can become a little wiser. Thanks.
  • N
    N

    Jim.

    I've been having the same problem as you since I first starting using VE-Pro last year. 

    I brought it to VSL's attention and Maya from VSL tried to replicate the problem back in November, but although a few emails bounced back and forth nothing was resolved unfortunately.

    I'm using the latest VE-Pro update with Logic 9.1.1, OS 10.6.4, a Master MacPro and two slave MacBook Pros. The latency issue occurs both when using the servers on the slaves as well as solely on the MacPro.

    Nick
  • W
    W

    Thanks Nick.  Good to know it's not just me!  Karel, I will send you some samples ASAP.  In the meantime, my Logic buffer is always set to 128, and as I reported previously, the problem only occurs when the VE Pro plugin buffer is set to 1 or 2.  When set to "none" everything is fine.

    More info to follow...
  • K
    K

    Sounds like Logic simply doesn't do any latency compensation whatsoever when rendering. Logic is rather bad at handling dynamic latency changes, but still seems very strange that it only happens with some users while others are unaffected.
  • W
    W
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    @Karel said:

    Sounds like Logic simply doesn't do any latency compensation whatsoever when rendering.

    I'm not so sure it's on the Logic side though, as I don't have this issue with any other plugin or instrument - just VE Pro.  And again, the issue only occurs when the VE Pro plugin is set to 1 or 2 buffers, so that makes me wonder if VE Pro is properly reporting its latency?

    I'm certainly not ruling out Logic as the culprit, just that the issue only occurs with VE Pro...
  • W
    W

    Well, I just started from scratch with a new Logic 9.1.1 (32-bit) song, a new external instance of VE Pro (32 bit server) running on a brand-new iMac.  The AU I opened is U-He Zebra 2.5 with a tempo-sync'd arpeggiator patch.  Sure enough, same thing, and I took a screenshot showing the various latencies related to the VE Pro plugin buffers:

    http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx152/whinecellarstudio/Software%20Bugs/VEProbufferbug.jpg

    From the top down: original MIDI region; VE Pro plugin set to no buffers, 1 buffer then 2 buffers.  You can clearly see the buffer amount added to the beginning of each audio file as dead space.  I can't find a way around this. and it happens on all 4 of my systems (all with same specs).
  • K
    K

    Would you mind sending a mail to  with this issue? No need for any extra information, it's just so we can handle this as a proper support case. Thanks.
  • W
    W

    Certainly.  Thanks again Karel for looking into it!
  • N
    N

    You should have all of my emails from last year still on your system with the screengrabs and audio files I attached as examples of the the latency problem. If you haven't let me know and I'l resend.

    FYI I doubt whether it's a Logic problem as I experimented with using one of my slave MacBook Pros as the Master and the problems didn't occur - no latency at all. They only seem to happen when using the MacPro as the Master with the servers either on the slaves or solely on the MacPro. Weird!

    So unfortunately unless I have the buffer of all my instances set to 0 on my MacPro I'm still having to bounce in real-time.

    Cheers.

    Nick
  • W
    W

    Just want to keep this thread alive... I've been doing some maintenance this week to incorporate my new slave Macs, so everything's been clean-installed and brought up to date with the latest versions of everything.

    I'm still experiencing this latency comp. issue when the VE Pro buffers are set to 1 or 2.  Not sure what else I can try at this point, because everything's in its factory-fresh state.  Again, this occurs regardless of hosted instrument (tried Kontakt, Omnisphere, Zebra, Vienna Instruments, Stylus RMX) and on both locally and externally-hosted VE Pro instances.  Also tried both 32 and 64-bit servers.  Same results no matter what.

    For those of you who are NOT experiencing this on 10.6.3/Logic 9.1.1/VE Pro 4.0.6150, I'd be curious as to your Logic pref settings.  Specifically:

    Process Buffer Range (mine = Medium)

    Plug-in Latency Compensation (mine = All)

    Thanks!
  • Y
    Y

    I'm curious about this issue.

    whinecellarstudio: does this only affect tempo synced patches? I've noticed that most of your tests are with tempo-synced stuff.

    My test was literally to check that Kontakt triggered locally had the same latency as Kontakt triggered over LAN via VEP. I just had 2 instances running in parallel both triggering the same drum sample and couldn't get the 2 to shift relative to each other under any circumstances playback or bounce, online or offline. I was running at 256 samples buffer, and both 1 and 2 buffers in VEP. Have you tried a test like mine? I'm going to do a test with some tempo-synced stuff and see if I get different results.

    I'll do some screen grabs of my Logic preferences when I'm back in the studio next week to see if there's any obvious setting that might be different between our systems and be causing this issue.

    Cheers,

    Will
  • W
    W

    Hey Will, thanks for the reply.  You know, I need to try some non-tempo sync'd stuff - I just figured that would be an ideal test.  I'll give that a shot, but I can't see why it would make a difference - how would VE Pro know or care?  Either way, it isn't right that it's happening, but certainly worth checking into...

    Jim
  • N
    N

    Hi Will.

    The latency problems occur with me irrespective of whether I'm using tempo synced patches or not. The Logic example I sent to VSL last year featured only an individual snare hit.

    It happens no matter what plug-in or patch I use, from cellos to synths, arpeggiated sounds to pianos...

    Hope you're well.

    Nick