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  4. VE Pro and DP7?
  • M
    M

    Were you testing with prerecorded MIDI or live triggering? With live triggering there is no way to get around extra latency gained by setting the plugin buffer higher.

    ADR may not be exactly precise (I've never tested it against itself at different buffer settings), but I've done some tests comparing VEPro MIDI and external MIDI (MIDIOverLAN) on my own and the VEPro MIDI way better than using some form of external MIDI if you are say, setting the VEPro plugin buffer to 0 while playing live and then back to 2 for playback to ease resource use.

  • K
    K

    Using the VE Pro Server Interface plugin, latency is reliable and jitter free by design. However latency compensation depends on the host as well. AU hosts tend to require a start/stop of the transport (or worse) to properly recalculate latency compensation.

    External MIDI (which includes solutions like MoL) can never achieve sample accurate and jitter free MIDI. It could get close, but it is flawed by design in this regard.
  • M
    M
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    @Karel said:

    Using the VE Pro Server Interface plugin, latency is reliable and jitter free by design. However latency compensation depends on the host as well. AU hosts tend to require a start/stop of the transport (or worse) to properly recalculate latency compensation.

    External MIDI (which includes solutions like MoL) can never achieve sample accurate and jitter free MIDI. It could get close, but it is flawed by design in this regard.

    Exactly....

    /crosses fingers for good news coming soon
  • N
    N
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    @magnumpraw said:

    /crosses fingers for good news coming soon

    +1000000
  • A
    A
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    @magnumpraw said:

    Were you testing with prerecorded MIDI or live triggering? With live triggering there is no way to get around extra latency gained by setting the plugin buffer higher.

    ADR may not be exactly precise (I've never tested it against itself at different buffer settings), but I've done some tests comparing VEPro MIDI and external MIDI (MIDIOverLAN) on my own and the VEPro MIDI way better than using some form of external MIDI if you are say, setting the VEPro plugin buffer to 0 while playing live and then back to 2 for playback to ease resource use.

    Well, I did test it with prerecorded midi. Precisely with 4 bars of a Bass Drum midi triggered every quarter. Every notes were quantized note on and note off and with consistent velocity value of 127. I freezed the track and I was surprised to find that the resulting audio track were not precisely on the downbeat as expected (ADC had to take care of it). Only then I freezed more tracks trying different buffer setting and, to my dismay, finding that the delay wasn't consistent but it worsened on higher buffer setting and that not every quarter were delayed of the same amount, showing some jittering effects. That's why I asked if somebody had run similar test in DP 7.2.1. Tomorrow I'm going to go in a studio were they work with Logic and I'm going to ask them to do this test in order to check if this behavior is DAW related. I'll let you know the results. Cheers Arceo
  • A
    A
    OK, here's the facts! I did the tests in Logic... No matter how the buffer was set, it turned out that the resulting audio tracks were the perfect clone one of each other. No latency and no jitter, at every buffer setting I always got the same audio track. Well that's what I was expecting when I ran these tests with DP... I don't know, maybe I'm doing something wrong, tomorrow I'm gonna run further tests. I cannot believe that VE Pro Automatic Delay Compensation work perfectly in Logic and is a complete failure in DP. I must be doing something wrong. I'll keep you informed, in the meanwhile, is there any kind soul who wants (no matter with which DAW)to run similar tests? TIA Arceo
  • K
    K

    Most likely DP is doing something wrong. It would be interesting to see how it behaves with other latency inducing AU's.
  • civilization 3C
    civilization 3C

    Hi. Don't know if this helps, but I turned on 'Constrain Delay Compensation' in Cubase for one (VE Pro) project, and the timing was ALL out of whack, all over the place.
  • D
    D
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    @Gianna said:

    Hi. Don't know if this helps, but I turned on 'Constrain Delay Compensation' in Cubase for one (VE Pro) project, and the timing was ALL out of whack, all over the place.

     

     Yes it would be. Cubase doesn't suffer from the same issues as some other DAWs. It has fresh ones all of its own. [:D]

    DG
  • K
    K

    That settings constrains the latency compensation, so it makes sense that timing would be out of whack.
  • civilization 3C
    civilization 3C

    That's intuitive enough... even for me. I think I turned it on just to see what happened [^o)]. Oh man was it messed up; not only timing but the whole sound of the applied effects was just... wrong.

    Does the DP function do something else though? Edit: wait, I can't read so well. It appears 'ADR' refers here to VE Pro and not neccessarliy some option in DP.

    (I'm following this as I have DP and might resort to it if this MAS protocol can work for VE Pro in a way that Logic/AU cannot'; so is this a problem with DP's implementation of one protocol or another, I wonder)
  • A
    A
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    @Gianna said:

    Does the DP function do something else though? Edit: wait, I can't read so well. It appears 'ADR' refers here to VE Pro and not neccessarliy some option in DP.

    (I'm following this as I have DP and might resort to it if this MAS protocol can work for VE Pro in a way that Logic/AU cannot'; so is this a problem with DP's implementation of one protocol or another, I wonder)

    Hi Gianna, well, sometimes it's hard for me being clear and precise, since English it's not my first language. Anyway when I mentioned ADC (not ADR), I was referring to DP's Auto Delay Compensation, the one that you find in "Studio Settings". And yes. me too I'm waiting impatiently for the MAS version of VE PRO to be released! 😉 Arceo
  • C
    C

    I would also like to voice my support for a MAS version.. My orchestestal templete for professional film scoring is currently 20 instances of Kontakt 4 loaded in Bidule.  I was excited to incorporate VE Pro into my system, but then learned of the 16 MIDI channel AU limitation. 

    If I understand this correctly I would have to open 20 instances of the server interface on my DAW machine,  instead of just one large VE template??

    What I found dissaopointing about this, is that I felt this limitiation was not clearly stated in the manual, or website ads, as everything stated that you could load VI's as VST's... I figured this isn't a big deal as I could just load Kontakt as a VST plug in.. I didn't realize VEPRO dosen't support VST on a mac.. maybe I'm not understanding that correctly, please correct me if that's not correct..

    If a MAS version can not be created, would there be a way to "unlock" the VST support in VE PRO on a mac on a future software realease? 
  • O
    O
    +1

    ipMIDI/MIDIoverLAN/IPC-MIDI in an offline (non-realtime) bounce situation simply will not function.

    In an ideal world, Apple would update the AU spec to overcome the MIDI limitation which would fix both Logic and DP's issue.... But something to do with hell and ice, and pigs with wings...
  • M
    M
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    @Karel said:

    We're looking into the technical feasability of this. Stay tuned.

    I see the new version of VEPro is out with no mention of MAS. Just wondering if this is still being looked into or if it was decided to be not feasable.

    Thanks!!
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi magnumpraw,

    it´s still on the to-do list. Some adaptations are not trivial, but we´re doing our best!

    Thanks for your patience,

    Paul

    Paul Kopf Head of Product Marketing, Social Media and Support
  • T
    T

    +1, yes, that would be a real potential workflow enhancer ...!

    Thanks for listening at VSL and for your precious time.

    Tom
  • J
    J

    +1, we definitly need a solution ! 

    2 more questions : I use up to 11 or 12 AU VE Pro occurences in DP 7.21 working with a slave PC.

    PC behaves fine and solid, but the Mac CPU is often overloaded, DP becomes instable and DP files are getting very heavy. 

    1) I would like to know how much 12 VE Pro occurences impact the Mac CPU instead of 1 ? 

    2) DP files can grow up to 40MB instead of 4MB without VE Pro pluging, is it normal ? 

    Thanks for your answer and support. 

    Jean-Philippe Goude

    Composer
  • R
    R
    +1 I know you guys are working hard to deliver this. The CPU hit we are taking is a big roadblock for us DP users. Thanks for your efforts!
  • A
    A
    +1 Hi, I join the band of people suffering for the cpu impact of multiple VE-PRO occurrences (average of 8/10 per song) in DP 7.22, hosted in a i7 PC slave... Thank you at VSL develop team for your efforts, we DP users will be VERY grateful when the MAS plugin will be released... Cheers :) Arceo