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  4. Transition sounds in legato instruments
  • J
    J
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    @Composer321 said:

    I am not using velocity xFade. I tried it but it didn't seem to make much difference.
     

    Was the Vel X Fade turned on?  If it's not turned on you won't hear a difference.  For some instruments it doesn't turn itself on by default.  If you're not hearing any difference than something is going on because you should hear a profound difference assuming you didn't edit any of the cell parameters.

    In addition to what William said, set your Release fader to about 65 as that helps smooth out the legato lines.
  • C
    C
    Thanks again for the reply. The attack is not less than 50, its at the default value. I am already aware that if target note is louder then the starting note, the legato transitions are louder. But that's not the case. If I play at an even dynamic, the transitions are choppy and it feels unnatural. By the way, I compared the legato in the Single DL instruments I have to the instruments in Opus ! that a friend of mine has and the transition are noticeably smoother in Opus 1. it's a big difference. Now I am really curious about how the BIG Vienna Instruments Woodwinds 1 would compare. If they play much better, I would have been much better off purchasing that library than buying the 4 download woodwinds I bought. Does anyone know if there any dealers in New Jersey New York area that have demos of Big VI Woodwinds I that one can actually play in store? If this is how the download woodwinds are supposed play, I will never use them. They feel too uncomfortable. ...but I am open to suggestions.
  • C
    C
    Thanks for responding. The Vel XFade if off (unlit). I didn't edit any parameters, I just loading the legato preset for Bb Clarinet and played it. The default for the releaser is 63. I tried your suggestion and increased it 65 but the transitions still do not sound smooth. i am willing to keep trying til I hopefully resolve this. Thanks again
  • J
    J
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    @Composer321 said:

    Thanks again for the reply. The attack is not less than 50, its at the default value.
     

    That's odd, I own Woodwinds I and mine defaults to 50.  So where is yours defaulting to?  FWIW, I move the attack fader constantly during play so that the different attacks are recorded.  It makes the instrument sound more natural.
  • J
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    @Another User said:

    The default for the releaser is 63. I tried your suggestion and increased it 65 but the transitions still do not sound smooth. i am willing to keep trying til I hopefully resolve this. Thanks again

    Again, it should be defaulting to 50 like the Attack unless there is a way to change that and you inadvertently changed it somehow.  Crank it up to 80 or 90 then and see what happens.

    Also, FWIW, I own the SE extended and I've used the woodwind samples from that collection without this issue you're having and, from what I understand, the single download instruments are taken from the SE and SE Plus.  Something strange is afoot here with these default values you're getting.  Unfortunately, diagnosing these issues over the Internet is like trying to do brain surgery over the Internet and to make matters worse, I'm not a brain surgeon.  

  • J
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    @Composer321 said:

    Does anyone know if there any dealers in New Jersey New York area that have demos of Big VI Woodwinds I that one can actually play in store?  

    Alto Music NYC

    attn: Shane Koss

    646-862-3999

    shane@altomusic.com
  • C
    C
    When I load the Bb Clarinet (Single Instrument DownLoad), the DEL defaults to 0, The ATK, DEC, SUS & REL all default to 63, RDL defaults to 0 and VOL defaults to 127. I tried your suggestion and I moved the ATK to 50 but that does not help the transitions to sound smoother.
  • W
    W

    Those ADSR values are not default so something is screwed up. 

  • J
    J

    Try doing a clean reinstall of the latest Vienna player software which you should be able to find in your user area.  Good luck. 
  • C
    C
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    @jasensmith said:

    Try doing a clean reinstall of the latest Vienna player software which you should be able to find in your user area.  Good luck. 
    Thanks again I tried everyone's suggestions and these tips made a small amount of difference in the uncomfortable choppiness of the transitions in perf legato presets: ---- This what I tried so far.--- 1. I adjusted the REL to 65 and ATK to 50 and then tried various other values --- 2. I am verifying that the ATK and REL default to 63, not 50 if I do nothing except startup VI and load a preset (Bb Clarinet). ---- 3. I Enabled X Fade (light on) and midi learned the VEL XF slider and rode the slider as I played. ---- 4. I am aware of the starting note and target note velocity and I adjusted my playing. ------- 5. I uninstalled the latest version 2.1.5740. Reinstalled the latest version. No good. I uninstalled the latest version again and installed version 2.0.4132. No change in the loud transitions problem but the default values for ATK, DEC, SUS and REL went to 50 instead of 63. I have decided to audition VI Woodwind 1 in person to compare that library to the single instrument downloads in the area of the transition sounds. I called Alto Music NYC (Thanks for the referral) and next week I will audition Woodwinds I in person and to see if there is a difference between the Single Instrument Download Bb Clarinet and the one in the Big VI Woodwinds 1 in how they play legato. --- As I stated earlier, I compared the Opus 1 Bb Clarinet to the Singles Instrument Download Bb Clarinet and the Opus 1 performance legato instrument version plays beautifully with none of these issues. Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
  • P
    P

    Yo... there`s nothing wrong ...at some point VSL changed the fader ranges from 1-100 to the standard midi range 1-127. So all the default values gets converted and re-calculated.They are however...the same in terms of MS`s.

    It`s a bit confusing...i have a VI plugin version that has the "old" range...the VEPro VI`s uses the new range...somehow they were not all updated at the same time, or maybe i didnt, but anyway...point is, the default values 50 and 63 are in effect the same :)

    I think the latest version Should have 63 as defaults.

    That`s what VSL told me anyway.
  • A
    A

    I am having similiar issues with Appasionata strings not being as smooth on legato/port.  It's real jumpy and picky and takes more work than Solo Strings.  Is this normal for this library?  It can actually sound pretty terrible if you jump to far up in velocity in a note transition.
  • R
    R

    I don´t use the download instruments but the SE. Using the Solo clarinet in Bb I also noticed that the transitions in a few intervals are not  smooth. Since I played clarinet when I was young I wondered why it´s so noticable. For a special phrase I took the Clarinet in Eb instead.

    Another thing that I noticed is the transition in legato strings. The Vienna Player sometimes seems to play the release samples and the transition samples at once, so that I have to set the Release fader to 0. Then only the transition samples are hearable and it´s a wonderful legato.  But because no one mentioned this in the forum, I think the reason for this is not the VI but me.
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hib Rainer,

    please make sure that you are connecting your legato notes - otherwise each "break" between MIDI notes will cause the Release Sample to play.

    Just for safety: I always check that only ONE MIDI keyboard is chosen as the MIDI Input on each track.... could also help.

    Best,

    Paul

    Paul Kopf Head of Product Marketing, Social Media and Support
  • C
    C
    I started this discussion. I'm a newbie to VI. I've been reading other posts on similar topics besides the ideas presented here in this discussion and all the ideas are just staring to incubate. I am coming into some insights that I am sure experienced VI user's have long known.

    Any articulation can sound fake or wrong if overused. The key to achieving a realistic performance is to use as large a variety of articulation as you can manage. The legato transitions do contain transitions that sound choppy for various intervals. I noticed that if I play a long series of notes that i want to be a legato phrase using only legato articulation, there will be too many choppy intervals and it really sounds terrible ... but if i break up the line by switching back and forth frequently between Legato and Sustain wVib, Sustain woVib, portato etc while playing with a legato finger technique the line will still sound legato but will have just the right balance of interesting (choppy) intervals and smooth transitions. I've come a realization now that those choppy legato transitions that I thought sounded terrible, are the very spice that makes a line sound incredibly real... But the key is to use discretion and taste to have just the amount of those legato intervals.

    Specifically I setup a foot pedal for Vel XFades, a matrix controlled by a fader for the vertical axis to switch between legato and other sustained articulations and velocity for the horizontal axis to switch to staccato and other short articulation. It's working for me and the legato sounds great now.

    I'm just scratching the surface.
  • R
    R

    Hi Paul,

    thank you for your advice!  In legato phrases I  always make the notes overlap a bit to each other. That works very well, and I guess that with gaps between the notes the transition samples would not be triggered. The problem with more than one MIDI input device is new to me. I use only one keyboard and import the MIDI Files usually from Finale. But I try to switch of the input device and choose "nothing".

    @composer: Sorry for thread capturing, I thought the problem would fit to yours.

    Best,

    Rainer
  • J
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    @Composer321 said:

    I'm just scratching the surface.
     

    Welcome to the "Great Journey" Composer 321  And a truely great journey it is.  One of the first things I learned when I started working with VSL, or any other sample library I own for that matter, is never let the score dictate what articulations you use.  You just use whatever works.
  • J
    J
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    @Composer321 said:

    I'm just scratching the surface.
     

    Welcome to the "Great Journey" Composer 321  And a truely great journey it is.  One of the first things I learned when I started working with VSL, or any other sample library I own for that matter, is never let the score dictate what articulations you use.  You just use whatever works.

    I have been arguing this point for 20+ years. IF you "write to the samples" and then worry about transcribing it later, you will usually make something that sounds great. if you attempt to take a score and play it, well, hit or miss.
  • D
    D

     With Velocity xFade turned off the transitions are as loud as the following note, because they are attached to the destination note. Therefore if you play two notes, the 2nd one being louder than the first one, you will hear a loud transition. The answer is always to use Velocity xFade on legato instruments.

    DG