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Hello All,
Quick question: How much of a deviation would you have to do to make a MIR mix sound like a hollywood or a studio recording as opposed to a live performance on stage?
For example: would the default volume of a solo violin (I think around -22 ?) be suitable for such a recording? Did anyone come accross a MIR tutorial for this kind of situation?
I'd appreciate any comments on this.. Thanks.
Not trying to be a jerk, but how about:
1. Set the level of the solo vln to where it pleases you.
2. Set the eq and panning and reverbs to where it pleases you
3. Continue mixing.
using "default" levels to build a mix ? I must be missing something. I mix by ear (obviously respecting gain staging). Do people really mix by numbers using MIR? :-(
How about learning how to mix?
I'm really not trying to be a jerk. But MIR is SIMPLY a tool to use for mixing. If you don't know why you are using it, you may want to learn some basic old-school techniques first. THEN when you get to MIR, you will understand and appreciate what it is doing. I really don't mean to flame you -- but your question about default volumes really clarified that you have no business using this tool. Yet.
Use your ears.
Hey Jeremy,
First of all let me state that I AM a beginner, you didn't assume incorrectly. Although I did do a few DAW mixes myself, I won't go into what I know and what I need to learn. I did not take offense from your post btw, I appreciate your comments. But I think I'll stick with MIR for the time being..
Let me clarify my question: why did the VSL team assign different volumes for each instrument if, as you say, I have to mix by ear? (on which I agree, but there has to be something TO it, otherwise the team wouldn't bother, and all instruments will default to 0). I know that in almost all recordings nowadays there's a mic next to each instruments and the whole thing is mixed meticulously. I just wanted to know if I'm missing something here..
OK... thanks for not taking my comments as a flame.
I have to run out now and I will contribute at length tomorrow -- but in short, the default settings of a mixer should never be "0" (which is really -0dbfs) because there would be zero headroom for your mix. it all has to add up (the sum of the parts). You need some headroom.
Numeric settings on a mixer are meaningless -- what if the piece is ONLY a solo violin? The overall level of the instrument will be proportionally greater. Much greater. What if the solo violin is simply representing 1st chair, and you also have 40 other violins also playing along?
Now here is where the MIR philosophy will contradict basic techniques -- since for realism (MIR's strength) there are basic truths to acoustics and where and how an instrument will live in an acoustic space. BUT we're making RECORDINGS approximating what we think we hear in these spaces, be it the Vienna Konzerthaus or the Todd AO scoring stage. So your levels are truly arbitrary. WHAT IF the soloist plays 3 times louder than the ensemble, because he's an egomaniacal jerk, and the conductor can't solve this? What if the soloist is paying for the recording session and wants his mic louder, irrespective of the "proper" balance.
I have only demo'd MIR, and am waiting for the rumored "pro" version, which is rumored to integrate VE Pro with MIR before I move to use it, HOWEVER, it is my understanding from listening to the creators, that MIR is designed (at its most basic use) for truth in placing samples into a space, and the integration of the instruments into the space.
So you have to start somewhere. So if they set the default to -22 (in gooney units, arbitrary), then that's where it starts, but that does't mean anything. Move the fader to where you like it. but pay attention to gain staging.
I have to run now, and I look forward to answering your mixing questions tomorrow and beyond. Remember to always trust your ears.
I have to chime in late (we've been out of town, recording new MIR venues ... hint, hint ;-) ....)
MIR offers a feature called "Natural Volume". It can be activated or deactivated for each single instrument you add to a Venue. The idea behind it is to have _all_ Vienna Instruments appear on stage with a meaningful basic volume setting in relation to each other.(... the value is in -dB, BTW, not in "gooney units"). The reason that they appear to be so low in volume is simple: The loudest ones (like the Tamtam) have to have enough headroom, and of course there's no way for MIR to know which instruments will be added to a certain arrangement, so we have to stay on the safe side.
If you want to bring all your instruments up to a value that makes sense for your arrangement, but without losing the relation between them (and without doing it by hand), just create a Group in the Group Editor, select Volume as the grouped aspect for all instruments in your arrangement, and change the volume to values that are just low enough to avoid overloading during the loudest part.
... this is explained in depth in the manual, too. :-)
HTH,
@patrik said:
New venues? Sounds exciting... what sort of places have you been recording [...]
We were allowed to capture one of the most prestigious orchestral sound stages in continental Europe, Teldex Berlin. We recorded over 6000 individual impulse responses in this first class studio.
[URL]http://www.teldexstudio.de/en/start.html[/URL]
[IMG]http://www.teldexstudio.de/images/studio_foto/saal1_large.jpg[/IMG]
(c) Teldex Studios
The week before, we had the chance to work several days (actually nights [S]) in a beautiful little church near Graz / Styria, the almost 700 years old Bergkirche Strassengel.
[IMG]http://www.mixedbydietz.com/images/2010_06_22 VSL-Strassengel 005_ED-DT_klein.JPG[/IMG]
(c) David Ender
[IMG]http://www.mixedbydietz.com/images/MIR_Strassengel_06_Ed.jpg[/IMG]
(c) David Ender
That's exciting news Dietz! Will you be including a version of the Teldex for the Vienna Suite Convolution Plugin as well? Mir is not an option for me, but if VS added a great scoring stage that competes with Todd, then I would definitely pick it up.
@ozoufonoun_29353 said:
That's exciting news Diets! Will you be including a version of the Teldex for the Vienna Suite Convolution Plugin as well? Mir is not an option for me, but if VS added a great scoring stage that competes with Todd, then I would definitely pick it up.
It's quite possible that MS (Martin Saleteg) will create a few selected presets for the VS Convolution Reverb. I can't say if they will come for free, though.
Great to hear about the teldec studio!
-Is this comparable in size and acoustics to those "famous" hollywood studios and do they deserve to be so famous ?
- Would you also recommend "Grosser Sendesaal" for attaining film compatible acoustics?
-I just discovered Roompack 3 is out. any demos of this and the upcoming Teldec would be welcomed.
