Have you found an insurance company that is insuring imaterial things ?

mine wont ! it will insure only the dongle lost for it's price (20$!!!)

Best

Cyril

I have spent a few days at my parents house at the see for Easter. I would have had the time to carry on a bit with my music, finally. The place is bautiful and quiet. But I didn't dare to take the key with me...is this how we are supposed to enjoy a 1500 euro purchase?

Cesare

For those of you who haven't seen it, give a look at this:

http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/30889.aspx

It left me speechless: 1500 euros to replace licenses on a BROKEN dongle!

It would be very helpful to know the average life-span of a Vienna key. At what age, for instance, have one percent of them failed? Five percent? Ten percent? What are the odds of a key lasting five years, or 10 years? This would make the decision of when (or whether) to replace a lot easier.

There must be a lot of keys out there, and it's hard to imagine the manufacturer doesn't have a handle on this.

--Mark Arnest

It seems to me that much of the frustration being vented in this thread is at least partially directed in the wrong direction.  VSL is really caught in the middle here.  They have to protect their assets, while at the same time dealing with both eLicenser and us, the customers.

If people were honest, the issue would simply not exist.  What is going on, in large measure, is that the hackers/cracked software users, in essence, are not just stealing from VSL, but also from us, the paying end users.  The real cost of theft is much higher than it appears at first glance.

@noldar12 said:

It seems to me that much of the frustration being vented in this thread is at least partially directed in the wrong direction.  VSL is really caught in the middle here.  They have to protect their assets, while at the same time dealing with both eLicenser and us, the customers.

If people were honest, the issue would simply not exist.  What is going on, in large measure, is that the hackers/cracked software users, in essence, are not just stealing from VSL, but also from us, the paying end users.  The real cost of theft is much higher than it appears at first glance.

Actually only a small part of the frustration is about the fee for restoring licenses, and only because the thread got slightly off topic. I think most of us get that Vienna have to pay eLicenser, and don't begrudge paying the fee - it would be nice if they would find a better solution, but it's not the priority.

Most of ths frustration is actually about the idea that, when your dongle is lost or stolen, the licenses are entirely lost. It would be so easy for Vienna to provide new licenses (for the nominal fee obviously), and there only seem to be two reasons why they wouldn't. One is that they believe the thief who has taken my dongle has started using it, and restoring my licenses would mean there is now one more Vienna user, but they have received no more money. That I can understand, but it's a massive improbability - most thieves would probably bin the dongle. The second line of thought would be that I am simply trying to get myself a second set of licenses, and the dongle isn't lost at all - this I find massively insulting. Why would I pay for the software once, and then suddenly become dishonest.

The original purpose of the thread was to point out that the notion of the dongle and license being the same thing is highly unfair, and also that it wasn't even pointed out anywhere in Vienna's documentation and advertising.

To be fair, the thread has turned up a number of cases where, at their discretion, VIenna have been at least a little helpful in the case of lost dongles. But the frustration is that it is entirely at their discretion. The dongle protects their interests entirely, but actually provides no protection for the user, even though we are the ones paying for it. Previous solutions have been somewhat random. For instance one user was told he could have new licenses (for the nominal fee) if he also bought more instruments, equal in value to those being restored. You can appreciate how this could be perceived as a little money-grubbing. If Vienna had believed he was being dishonest then the answer should have been a simple no; if not, then it should have been a simple yes; not yes, but only under a bunch of conditions we just thought up on the spot.

The point I've made in the thread, which they repeatedly refuse to grasp, is that, in all probability, their policy is illegal in the UK. In the UK I am allowed to sell any physical object that I own. If Vienna wish to make the license synonymous with the dongle then it becomes a physical object, and I am entitled to sell it on, despite the typical EULA for samples. If the license is not synonymous with the dongle, but remains intangible, then it can't be lost. The license is purely the permission granted me to use the samples, and can't possibly be stolen or lost. They can't have it both ways.

SO you see, most of the frustration is about this situation. The dongle system, as it stands, protects Vienna entirely, but creates a high-risk situation for honest users, and Vienna seem completely unwilling to work towards a better solution. The paying a fee for each license is far more understandable - although, again, it would be better if Vienna would work towards a solution where this isn't necessary. For some users restoring licenses could cost upwards of $1000, which has got to be a bit annoying.

I wasn't going to comment and prolong this, but I have to say - there is no frustration with VSL for professionals.  Only for amateurs like the people who created and sustained this thread.

I request that this thread be closed, because it is a bunch of misinformation and lies.  VSL uses industry standard copy protection and the people who made this thread don't like that.  So they attack the company.  It is totally wrong.

VSL is trying to be democratic and open, but they have no need to cater to this kind of garbage. 

William Dont judge a person until you walked in his/her shoes.

I can relate to some of these post. I can say VSl was really helpful getting mine replaced. When my don-gal fail for no reason. And i mean no reason! ( didn't use for a month because i moved. But since it was past the warranty i never heard it had a end date, i had to pay almost half the cost of the samples i already paid for. So yes some may be exaggerating a little. But closing this thread when people who already paid money to have a working product to have to pay again to get a few SN and USb to get there sample working , i can see why it hits a cord to some. I hope it never happen to you or anything worse. But don't talk or judge on something you never experienced.

But when you do pay the money they are really helpful and fast about getting everything fix, but until you pay $$$$.

Sorry William, just who the hell do you think you are? I've never read such arrogant crap.

Firstly Vienna need to cater for all their customers. If they sell to amateurs then they need to deal with the concerns of amateurs.You don't get to decide that the product was mainly meant for you.

Secondly, everything you've written is factually incorrect. The thread came about precisely because Vienna were neither democratic or open, and in fact still aren't. Their policy regarding the restoration of licenses remains a mystery, and solutions offered to customers vary at the whimsy of Vienna. That is entirely the opposite of 'open.' As for democratic, explain how. In a democracy people are listened to, and everyone has an equal say. I'm not actually suggesting that a company and its customers should be a democracy at all - the company offers a service, and people can buy it or not - but please don't just throw buzzwords out there for the sake of it. But, whilst we're there, in order for customers to buy into a service, the conditions should be clear up front, and in this case they never were.

I don't understand why you felt the need to join in this thread if you're so happy with things the way they are. Surely if you are happy then you can leave well alone, and let those who have issues voice them. Suggesting that threads be deleted because you personally don't like them, or understand them, is both arrogant and the opposite of the democracy you suggest exists here.

To me it is a matter of safe gaurding your customer's, fact is people loose things ie car keys credit cards phones and big things like USB stick's, i think VIENNA  should really have a better system that allows them to cut off the old dongle codes, then you have to pay for a new dongle plus a small charge, be honest i have spoken to people in the past that have every wave's and also many VSL crack's, I think its time the PAYING customers are actully cared about and not taken to the cleaners first chance VSL get. One other thing, some companis are now charging a monthly subscription and you can use their products via cloude, its sounds like a good way forward. 

Their is one other option and i am using it, I have a copy of Sythogy Grand Piano, it was running on an 32bit system, i have now gone 64bit, i asked Synthogy " Hi guys im one of your old customers where can i get the new drivers" the reply was well you can have the driver's we have them here but it will have to buy Ivory 2. Ok i replyed do you think we are stupid your basickly putting the new drivers in a new box with some new CD's and charging me for the drivers, that you should be supplying, its called customer care and support its what build's customer loyalty and without it your finished. 

The old new option. 

I have now gone back to outboard piano plus i run it thorught a quality valve compressor into protools, to be honest it sounds a lot better i will never need a driver or have to spend ££££ on an upgrage that should have been passed on as a matter of customer care and support. 

Customer will lose dongles or break them or what ever and their should be a fair system in place to resolve the issue. 

The Wave solution seem to be very good

iLok? What century is this?

I was ready to buy a library until I saw that iLok was the only license option. There's no way I am wasting a USB port and no protection against theft for VSL. Let me know when you folks want to enter the present.

Until then, no thank you!