DG,

Here in the states things must work differently than in Germany. Most home owners insurance company will not grant insurance to pro items that leave your home. I have a policy that states I am insured for10k software in home. If software or dongle leaves home I am no longer insured.  For us it is only possible through companies like Loyds at a huge expense, or possibly through a Aftra/Musician local union which requires membership and dues. I understand your reasons for not caring about the what could happens, but there are many fair solutions avialable and as you can see your customers care! Why on earth would you be so insensitiv in your response,  I'm really surprised. There is not one individual on this forum that has not been a loyal VI supporter/customer and yet VI dismissing our concerns by just saying go out buy this insurance w/o an understanding of how things work is a mistake for you. Find a solution and make your customers happy and loyal. 

You are mistaken about ZDT please readthe policy prior to stating inacrurate information

This is direct quote

Fees
• ZDT coverage costs $30.00 per iLok for up to one year or until your iLok breaks
or lost/stolen: whichever comes first.
• ZDT coverage and expediency fees are non-refundable.
• At the end of the 12-month period, your ZDT subscription(s) will automatically
renew using the credit card on file. Read at the following link:

http://www.ilok.com/docs/zdt_terms.pdf

@kzarider said:

I understand VI policy, I would assume that users here who have invested so much would not share the registrations with friends that wouldnt pay for items. But it would be great to have a policy for purchase that protects you like iLoks ZDT. After having invested over 7k in VSL I would like to know they appreciate me as much as I do them. I can't imagine that this wouldn't be profitable for VSL and fair for customers willing to pay for peace of mind

Remember, Waves charges an annual fee for WUP (which includes) ZDT. Are you willing to pay VSL an annual fee for a similar program?

OOps -- we're mixing up acronyms.

ZDT is the ilok.com program. ZDT does NOT replace lost or stolen licences!

WAVES has a program called TLC that is time-bombed/phone home. Very different programs.

Why even mention dongle cracking here, I am surprised this isn't deleated. It seems that we are looking for a solution that makes both VI and Users happy. Anyone using bootleg  software or music is on dark end of life.

Out of every disater an opportunity?

I have started a petition:

http://www.change.org/petitions/vienna-symphonic-library-have-a-clear-policy-concerning-their-software-dongle-vienna-key

Let me know what you think.

Best,

Cesare

Cesare,

I respect your position. From my end, this petition will not help me at all nor do I think it addresses the fundamental issue of improving the licenses security. We are talking about two different issues here:

1) Better disclosure of procedures to handle issues with the eLicenser.

2) Provision of a more practical way to safeguard/backup your purchased licenses should your eLicenser(s) have any issue.

Your petition addresses 1), which I think is simpler to address. On the other hand 2) is more fundamental and relevant to existing users and even prospective ones, and addressing it would, at least in my opinion, account for 1) while providing additional practical guarantees to the end-user.

Gusfmm,

I totally agree with you: Point 2) that you mention is in a much more important point and it is actually what many of us would like to see becoming true. However, I have seen that the discussion on backup methods usually leads to diverging opinions and makes it difficult to have a common front. Instead, nobody would objects that the lack of clarity of Vienna reagrding their policy of stolen/broken/damaged  keys (and the other things mentioned in the petition) is, let's say, embarassing...

I hope you will sign the petition

http://www.change.org/petitions/vienna-symphonic-library-have-a-clear-policy-concerning-their-software-dongle-vienna-key

Although I am aware that it is far from enough, it will at least remember Vienna that we are still here waiting.

Best,

Cesare

Wow i have to agree,  my usb was out of warranty and needed both the key and license . They charge me over a 100.00 to get a new usb and license & shipping. Crazyness, i could of bought the upgrade for that amount. I think i will buy the upgrade and that's all from vsl. I see why people are upset. 

The back and forth from VSL to ilio, just to get this all worked out. Whats crazy it was not even my fault. The usb red light came on but my computer would not recognize the usb and it did the same for the people at vsl. But since i had it for so long, i had to pay for the getting it replaces. With the way samples are getting better sounding from other companies . I don't think vsl will last 5 years with these usb practices..  I love there sound but this dongle is going to leave a bad taste in people mouth. And the US dollar will be there least worry…   My advice is to buy usb after 2 year of having usb and get it trasfered to new. 

Indeed competition is mounting up and hopefully will give costumers some advantages. I've heard the LASS demos and was really impressed, and the best thing: no dongles!!! I am thinking of getting one soon, just waiting to see whether Notion 4 will support it...

Cesare

Well that's an incredible coincidence, because I've just been corresponding with Paul Steinbauer about this issue (I just upgraded my library and I'm quite worried about this issue), and he said they are definitely looking into it. The problem is they depend on eLicenser to make the change. I think we should all put the pressure on them. As I said to Paul, surely if you can download a license you should be able to upload it for safekeeping? That way you could travel with dongle (sans licenses) and download them again when you reach your destination....

 @CBones- I'm not going to argue your central argument questioning the convenience and practical useability of the eLicenser, etc. But I must say you lost me a few times in your dissertation. One of them, and I still hesitate in trying to assert this, when you mentioned whatever you meant with the analogy with the iLok.

Not sure how acquainted you're with the details on any claim process involving an iLok, but it is almost as bad as speaking of an eLicenser. Not quite, but you still are completely at the developer's mercy to provide you or not with new licenses. Quite frankly, that is in fact a very bad citacion in this case.

I think a much more sound argument, of recent occurrence, is the way for instance Waves is getting out of the iLok system for a web-based solution.

@clruwe said:

 I've just been corresponding with Paul Steinbauer about this issue and he said they are definitely looking into it. 

THIS IS A GOOD NEWS 

Same thing here. I would have liked to get Instruments Pro, MRI and a whole bunch of download instruments but I will not invest anything anymore into something that needs to go on the dongle. Luckily, a lot of competitors are catching up in terms of quality and now there are excellent dongle-free alternatives to VSL. I am considering LASS, I am just waiting to see whether Notion 4 will support it. Obviously I would have preferred to have improve my initial investment with VSL rather than switching! But this post is years old and nothing has changed since it's creation. Same reasoning applies for Cubase, loads of features are intriguing but I won't switch to it as long as it stays dongle based...I prefer to wait for the next Logic...

Regarding the iLok, it is simply as bad as the Vienna Key (they are the same concept) with one significant difference though: EWQL stuff is much cheaper! EWQL gold, which would roughly correspond to VSL SE, costs 1/5 of SE (I saw that this month you can get it for 250 euros). For those prices I think one could bear the annoyance of the dongle. The Vienna Key policy and the lack of information reserved for costumers is simply too much for such an expensive product. With VSL it is like paying for a 5 stars hotel while getting the same service as a cheap Motel. However, again, now there are also many huge dongle-free alternatives.

Cesare

P.S.: I saw a small crack in my Vienna Key!!! Panic!!! I will have to order a new one fast or I might have to re-buy the whole thing!!! That would be a couple of thousand euros...

I am always nervous about all software protection, but we have to accept that software does need protecting. 

I think the dongle idea,  is the best way.  Take LASS for example - it uses Kontakt Player (yuk! - the one reason I wouldn't buy LASS !),  but this has to be authorised through the internet to NI,  this is computer specific, so you cannot move the licence to a different computer and use it there (like you can with the dongle) - it is tied to one computer.  And if in the future Native Instruments folded (they nearly did once),  you would never get LASS working ever again.  But with dongled software, even if VSL, Steinberg or EW went out of business - your software will still work on any computer.

As for what happens if the dongle fails,  then that is another issue which I am not going to get involved with, but I would encourage VSL to implement a stated maximum cost to reinstate the lost licences.

I agree with the above. A dongle is a good idea in principle. But with any company, even MICROSOFT! You get more than one license when you purchase their software. So if your computer blows up, you get burgled or your house goes up in flames you can reinstall all your stuff elsewhere. So the solutions are easy and obvious (I've discussed this with several experts in computer security and they are really simple to carry out):

1.- VSL should give two licenses with every product (only one can be activated at a time). Since if someone stole your dongle they wouldn't have any of the software anyway. VSL would block it, consequently no updates, support or anything. VSL wouldn't really lose anything, unless they are trying to profit from people's disasters, which I very much doubt.... These are nice people that love music and are a bit scared cause their Kontakt versions got hacked and you can find them everywhere on the Internet.

2.- RE-UPLOAD THE LICENSE!!! This is so obvious!!! If I bought a second license for all my VSL products and never bother downloading them to the eLicenser, they would be safe in the virtual world forever (I think). I mean come on people, we live in an era where we can access our bank accounts, move money around, pay online, store personal data, etc. all securely. Why can't we just store the damned licenses in some account? VSL or eLicenser provided....  Or even my Dropbox!

a few of you posting here should really go into the digital rights management business - your market success obviously would be overwhelming!

@clruwe said:

But with any company, even MICROSOFT! You get more than one license when you purchase their software.

this is simply not true (except their family products which come with 3 or 5 activations and office which can be installed on a desktop and a notebook, but you're not authorized to use both simultaneously).

i don't know if de-authorization of a computer works better meanwhile for kontakt, for adobe it is still a nightmare and if your harddisk died complicated to impossible.

how easy is it with a key - stick it on any other computer and run.

i personally also wouldn want to re-upload 30 or more licenses just to re-download them later having to rely on a working internet connection on both places ...

however: improvement of processes should always be possible.

This thread kind of comes and goes and I only half pay attention but somebody a few thousand or so posts ago (seems like doesn't it?) mentioned the idea of VSL being the insurer. 

I wonder if it is possible to have the option of paying VSL say 10 to 15% more on whatever product you buy then if something happens to your key, or whatever, you get one, and only one, reactivation of the licenses free of charge (except the cost of the dongle).  If you chose not to purchase the insurance when you first purchased the product, then you're screwed.  If you loose the key again after the reactivation, you're screwed.

Perhaps, if after loosing the key the first time and having your licenses reactivated, you wish to repurchase the insurance, VSL could charge a percentage of all of your previously purchased products at the VSL Store price of those products.  The more you have the more you would pay which is only fitting.  Perhaps something like 20%?  Loose the key yet again... you pay 30% for the insurance, Loose it again...  Well, I mean seriously, if you loose the key again after 3 times then you really are a complete scatter brained idiot and you have other issues to sort out.  But if that's the case then you pay more because scatter brained idiots are a higher risk. Right?

The insurance can only be purchased at the time of sale and at the time of reactivation in the event of a lost or stolen key.  So you can't loose your key, then buy the insurance after the fact.

This way, the risk and pain would be spread out more and, depending on your circumstances, you can choose whether to have piece of mind or not.  If you travel a lot with the dongle then it would behoove you to purchase the insurance.  If you don't travel and you don't think it's necessary then don't worry about it.

How 3rd party vendors and Elicensor fits into all of this, I don't know but... at least it's a way to spread the risk and pain.