@cm said:

sir, please note that there is a difference between damage caused by fire, a robbery, a burglery and simply losing something ... i'm sure you would have some official paperwork after your house burned down ... in such a case just make sure your ViennaKey is mentioned in the respective documents.

So you would accept an official e.g. police statement for robbery but not for loss? This does not absolutely hold from the point of view of the reasoning that you cannot reissue licenses for free since someone else could be using the old ones. There is much higher chance that someone else could be using the software in case the ViennaKey gets stolen rathern than lost. Should I cite your email regarding this topic or have I cited correct enough?

My ViennaKey "disappeared" on a train, it could also have been stolen as far as I know, good to know for next time.

Anyways, at least it looks like a step forward. What is the policy for stolen keys then? Can we have a bit of clear information for once?

Hello Christian.

@Cyril said:

SO IF CASE OF FIRE I WILL GET ONLY THE PRICE OF THE DONGLE

sir, please note that there is a difference between damage caused by fire, a robbery, a burglery and simply losing something ... i'm sure you would have some official paperwork after your house burned down ... in such a case just make sure your ViennaKey is mentioned in the respective documents.

If the house is burn, burglery or if some one has took your dongle, the insurance will only give you the replacent of the dongle, not it's licenses

 Are you working with your lawer to give us a solution that follow european laws ?

I dont know if you have noticed there are future user waiting for a solution to buy stuff from you

Best

Cyril

@Cyril said:

You better ask to your insurance a writing ! they are always saying yes yes and yes, but when it is time to pay the answer  might be :

Sorry sir you have not understand we do not cover imaterial !

Well I don't know how things are in your neck of the woods but here in the states when you purchase insurance, material immaterial, doesn't matter.  You purchase insurance based on the value of the item(s) to be insured.  Yes, the dongle itself is only worth about $40.00, I get it, but the licenses it contains increase that value.  My insurance company wouldn't insure a $40.00 item anyway because the value is too small.  I explained to them that the Vienna key is like a key to a car that can't be duplicated in any way and without the key the car is useless.  They understood and said they have no problem insuring the licenses on the key under the condition that I don't travel with it. If I do, I'm on my own.  If nothing else but the Vienna key disapeared, they won't cover it. 

My homeowner's insurance covers loses of up to $50,000.  Your everyday average shmuck thief wouldn't know what that little piece of plastic is and would be more interested in the computer it's attached to.  He may even be inclined enough to remove it as he's unplugging everything.  In the event that he does take everything I know that I'm covered.                  

@jasensmith said:

My homeowner's insurance covers loses of up to $50,000.  Your everyday average shmuck thief wouldn't know what that little piece of plastic is and would be more interested in the computer it's attached to.  He may even be inclined enough to remove it as he's unplugging everything.  In the event that he does take everything I know that I'm covered.                  

I have looked in Wiki about US, you are allowed to do private copies !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy

A lot of countries are paying a levy to allow private copy

So again VSL is  NOT abiding US law

@Another User said:

private copying levy (also known as blank media tax or levy) is a government-mandated scheme in which a special tax or levy is charged on purchases of recordable media.

in german speaking europe it is widely known as *Urheberrechtsabgabe (URA)* and is also charged on photo-copiers, scanners, usb-sticks, CD-Rs, DVD-Rs, video-tapes, sometimes harddrives, ect.

VSL actually encourages you to make backup copies of your installer (or installed) files, especially if you downloaded them, at your convenience.

@cm said:

VSL actually encourages you to make backup copies of your installer (or installed) files, especially if you downloaded them, at your convenience.

so allow us to do a copy of the licenses too 😉

Are you working on finding a solution or do you don't care ?

Best

Cyril

If VSL, EW, etc. decide to allow the simple copying of licences - thereby enabling inscrutable slime to begin proliferating their products, either by selling them short, or by simply sharing them, I will never buy anything else from these companies ever again! I was offered the full Pro Edition for free all those years ago and I declined that offer (others of course didn't...). Instead, I paid all those thousands of €€, when I could have accepted the full pirated library, and spent all that money on much needed hardware, sound-proofing the studio, etc.

I expect of these companies not only to protect themselves, but to also protect our investments in them and, within reason (i.e. without making us legitimate customers suffer unnecessarily), make it difficult/impossible for unethical competitors of ours to gain illicit advantages over us in the industry. If those people want to work with the same tools as I do, they will just have to pay for them! Otherwise, loose-security companies will be forcing at least my hand to balance things out.

@Errikos said:

I expect of these companies not only to protect themselves, but to also protect our investments 

We all do, but in a way which is not suffocating for costumers 

@cesare.magri said:

DRAFT #1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  

Users complained about VSL not providing important information regarding some policies related, in particular, to the USB copy-protection system, called the ViennaKey. This is USB dongle, which is required to run VSL software since the introduction of Vienna Instruments, is required to activate and stored licenses purchased from VSL. However, no information is given by VSL about the following facts:

* There is no way to backup a licenses after it has been stored on a ViennaKey. Also, there is no way to temporally de-activate a license. Once a license is activated on a ViennaKey it has to remain on one ViennaKey (although licenses can be moved between different ViennaKeys).  

* If a ViennaKey is lost or stolen, the user will use the ability to use all the licenses which are stored on that ViennaKey. It has been reported that, as a standard procedure, users are propose to purchase replacement for the licenses on the lost/stolen ViennaKey for 50% of the original price. However, no clear standard procedure has been made public by VSL concerning this issue and users some users have reported different procedures such as purchasing additional new licenses in order to obtain a replacement for the lost/stolen ones. Questioned by the users about these issues, starting from April 2010, VSL has added the following statement to its Terms of License "Lost or stolen Licenses cannot be replaced free of charge by Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH".  

* If the warranty period of the ViennaKey has expired and the ViennaKey brakes or starts malfunctioning the user will be charged a fixed amount per license to replace licenses after purchasing a new Vienna Key. This amount has been reported by some users to be approximately 30 USD, but no clear policy has been made public by VSL regarding this issue. Additionally, it is not known what the policy is for key that are damaged in such a way that the serial number cannot be read (such as in case of a fire).  

* VSL does not make publicly available the nominal fee which needs to be paid in order to sell licenses. This has been speculated to be 10% of the retail price of the license or 70 USD minimum per license. Licenses cannot be auctioned on public channels such as eBay. 

No comments so far? Let's post it like this: people and Vienna will still be able to modify it on the Wikipedia page (which is probably easier too).

Hello Christian

Looks like that VSL do not care !

No answer from you  !

Do you want me to get the insurance to be able to sue VSL as you do not respect the European laws " Allow private copy", as soon I return from my holidays ?

Best

Cyril

dear cyril, since you're addressing (obviously) me directly and personally ...

@Cyril said:

you do not respect the European laws " Allow private copy"

ahead - this is not european law, it is national law of the respective country though EU has issued several guidelines.

the respective regulations are varying from country to country, the more since copyright is not the same as german *urheberrecht* (sorry, i don't know the french term).

whereas in UK and US there is a fair-use exception for private copying of creative works, in almost all other countries this type of allowance does not exist and copying is basically forbidden - with certain defined exceptions.

also there is always a difference regarding digital and non-digital works and it is always an exception from a prohibition, not a right.

eg. in austria we had a change lately which states that copying digital work is explicitely only allowed for persons, which means that generally no company can be entitled to make copies of digtal work without beeing allowed to do so by the author.

eg. in US there is currently a discussion going on betwenn the music and film industry and the Computer and Communications Industry Association (CCIA) about redefining the fair-use clause.

currently there are several proceedings going on at the european court (eg. from spain) regarding regulation of (digital) private copies.

and again (as already posted earlier): private copies do always refer to works, never to licenses.

allright, so I finally bought the full cube with help of the student discount. I hope I won't need to blame myself for that.

Now I can just hope that there will come options to transform my license to limited time licenses that requires internet connection but removes the risk of having to buy all this 50% again. Or at least, why cannot VSL itself be the insurance company that easier can calculate the risk and insure the licenses, instead of an insurance company that does not understand what I want to insure and probably will ruin me without paying me the money when it all comes down to a lost key? 

Now I have distributed my licenses on 3 different keys, so that not all licenses can disappear on the same time, but it does still feel uncomfortable.

I hope VSL are taking this seriously and I would really want to see this issue taken care about! 

//Felix

I understand VI policy, I would assume that users here who have invested so much would not share the registrations with friends that wouldnt pay for items. But it would be great to have a policy for purchase that protects you like iLoks ZDT. After having invested over 7k in VSL I would like to know they appreciate me as much as I do them. I can't imagine that this wouldn't be profitable for VSL and fair for customers willing to pay for peace of mind

DG,

Here in the states things must work differently than in Germany. Most home owners insurance company will not grant insurance to pro items that leave your home. I have a policy that states I am insured for10k software in home. If software or dongle leaves home I am no longer insured.  For us it is only possible through companies like Loyds at a huge expense, or possibly through a Aftra/Musician local union which requires membership and dues. I understand your reasons for not caring about the what could happens, but there are many fair solutions avialable and as you can see your customers care! Why on earth would you be so insensitiv in your response,  I'm really surprised. There is not one individual on this forum that has not been a loyal VI supporter/customer and yet VI dismissing our concerns by just saying go out buy this insurance w/o an understanding of how things work is a mistake for you. Find a solution and make your customers happy and loyal. 

You are mistaken about ZDT please readthe policy prior to stating inacrurate information

This is direct quote

Fees
• ZDT coverage costs $30.00 per iLok for up to one year or until your iLok breaks
or lost/stolen: whichever comes first.
• ZDT coverage and expediency fees are non-refundable.
• At the end of the 12-month period, your ZDT subscription(s) will automatically
renew using the credit card on file. Read at the following link:

http://www.ilok.com/docs/zdt_terms.pdf

@kzarider said:

I understand VI policy, I would assume that users here who have invested so much would not share the registrations with friends that wouldnt pay for items. But it would be great to have a policy for purchase that protects you like iLoks ZDT. After having invested over 7k in VSL I would like to know they appreciate me as much as I do them. I can't imagine that this wouldn't be profitable for VSL and fair for customers willing to pay for peace of mind

Remember, Waves charges an annual fee for WUP (which includes) ZDT. Are you willing to pay VSL an annual fee for a similar program?

OOps -- we're mixing up acronyms.

ZDT is the ilok.com program. ZDT does NOT replace lost or stolen licences!

WAVES has a program called TLC that is time-bombed/phone home. Very different programs.

Why even mention dongle cracking here, I am surprised this isn't deleated. It seems that we are looking for a solution that makes both VI and Users happy. Anyone using bootleg  software or music is on dark end of life.

Out of every disater an opportunity?

I have started a petition:

http://www.change.org/petitions/vienna-symphonic-library-have-a-clear-policy-concerning-their-software-dongle-vienna-key

Let me know what you think.

Best,

Cesare